The Little History lesson.

[Kazan_HB]

Were Russians allied with German Nazis?


Sure! September 1939 Brzesc Poland

and read there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

[druski85]

Well not exactly allied ... they just said they wouldn't attack each other -- yet. 

[Angus]

They were partners in both business and splitting up certain "areas", that is, countries.
Both Poland as well as the three Baltic countries (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) fell under the deal.
Further more, they went through some very big business deals in 1940 and 1941. The Germans had their oil sources not only from Romania, but also huge quantities from the USSR. Ironical it is, but the LW probably used mostly Russian fuel while trying to bomb Britain into submission in the BoB.
The USSR also got their pay, one thing that comes to mind are the blueprints of the Bismarck.
And one fine happy day in the summer of 1941 this was all over....

[Anaxogoras]

Oh!  Is this because of my comment that France and the UK were obliged to declare war on Russia, but didn't?

[druski85]

And one fine happy day in the summer of 1941 this was all over....

Yea, my friends like to tell me all the cool stuff that happened in history on their birthdays.  In my mind, nothing comes close to "on my birthday Hitler decided to lose WW2 "  June 22 for the win...er lose.  Good thing Mussolini was incompetant in Greece, or my day would be pretty ordinary.   

[Angus]

Oh!  Is this because of my comment that France and the UK were obliged to declare war on Russia, but didn't?

They did study the possibility to bomb Russian oil fields.

[Obie303]

The Red Army attacked Poland on September 17, 1939.  As a result of this, it was reported that the Red Army had captured 452,536 Polish troops, government officials, police, postal workers, and other non-military personnel as part of the "de-Polonize" policy.  Most of the officers captured in 1939 were murdered in 1940 at Katyn and other places.

This is taken from the book, "Poland 1939.  The birth of Blitzkreig."  Written by Steven J. Zaloga.

[Kermit de frog]

Oh!  Is this because of my comment that France and the UK were obliged to declare war on Russia, but didn't?

I think this is from my comments I made on ch200 last night.
Bruv seemed to be the only one to respond back the best, but it wasn't enough to overcome my argument that Churchill was responsible for killing millions of people around the world.
   

[Shuffler]

Russians paid dearly for their Non Aggression Pact with the Germans.

[Kermit de frog]

Russians paid dearly for their Non Aggression Pact with the Germans.

So did the Polish against Russian hands.

[PiratPX]

Does Boroda still haunt this forum? Just wait till he sniffs this topic .

[PiratPX]

So did the Polish against Russian hands.

You may say that Poles payed dearly for making allies with France and England in the first place. Poland was incomparably weaker than either Russia or Germany - major threats to the country at that time and ever before. Our defence doctrine relied on cooperation with our allies. In case Poland was attacked, allied attack on Germany's western border should have drawn most of German army there and make it easier to defend Poland. Russians wouldn't move then too (if you asked why they attacked only after 17 days of the campaign, when it was apparent that nobody was going to help Poland). In case Hitler attacked west, Poland was to attack it's eastern borders. I think that giving high priority to produce modern PZL P.37 medium bombers (purely attack weapon) in last years before the war confirms my thesis.
Recently some historians in Poland started to say that in late 30's it was possible and would probably pay better for Poland, to ally with Germany against Russia. I doubt if western European countries would have anything against that too. Wonder what would Europe and world looked like today had it happened.

[Shuffler]

There might still be a wall up through poland.... who knows.

[Angus]

I think this is from my comments I made on ch200 last night.
Bruv seemed to be the only one to respond back the best, but it wasn't enough to overcome my argument that Churchill was responsible for killing millions of people around the world.
   

You can claim that Churchill is the reason of Britain not bending to the Germans, and therefore WW2 carried on and took millions of lives. So now prove to me where it would have saved lives, since the Nazi plan was to attack Russia anyway, as well as completing the final solution.

[BlauK]

Recently some historians in Poland started to say that in late 30's it was possible and would probably pay better for Poland, to ally with Germany against Russia. I doubt if western European countries would have anything against that too. Wonder what would Europe and world looked like today had it happened.

One might speculate that the war would have passed through Poland only once, in 1945, instead of -39, -41 and -45. Op Barbarossa would have had a bit deeper starting position, but I doubt it would have changed the final outcome.
Then again, the post war years in Poland under Soviet rule might have been worse? ...who knows?

Maybe in BoB the Poles would have flown 109:s (in JG303) instead of Hurricanes?