Looks like the f22 production really is stopping

[MORAY37]

.

China is the third largest economy in the world after the U.S. and Japan, and China and Japan combined is still less then half of the U.S. so relax.  They have a very poorly trained army, navy and airforce and their military hardwear is nowhere near even Russia's - on top of it - their Navy and Airfoce are actually managed as the Army (china only has the army) which may lead some to speculate that this would make organization better right?  wrong. . . inter departmental politics in the chinese military, the way the air and sea wings are used to support the army means China still has a LONG way to go before they can project power. 

cont.

So you're saying the J-10 is trash?

[bj229r]

Is F22 considered an air-to-air only platform? What about JSF?

[TOMCAT21]

F22 has limited air to ground capability..2 JDAMS(Joint Direct Attack Munitions are carried. The F-35 is a multirole aircraft .

[jdbecks]

The real threat the U.S. faces is in Cyber-warfare, and this too is no great mystery.  The U.S. is the most networked society, and that includes our military/government/intelligence communities. . . China and Russia have been working in these fields a lot lately (lots of stories out there - and thats just the half of it imo < thats NSA/Airforce stuff. . .>) - - and the U.S. is at a major disadvantage because China and Russia (and every other country except Canada) is less networked, and thus less vulnerable to a net blackout.  So when the U.S. starts to think about the net as a security risk. . .thats when things like the F22 program just look really old-fahsioned.  

We are not going to face another airforce as great as us, we are not going to meet an army or navy that is better trained or equipped.  The future of the wars we are going to fight, other then these desert camping trips we gotta get the hell out of asap, is going to be very quiet and quite devious. . . thats the reports a lot of analysts have been writing from before 9/11. . . and 9/11 changed nothing in terms of the wars we are going to fight. . .

anyway - its a sexy plane. . . but we don't need it.

Having better equipment is only half the battle, a soldier that is use to having to many home comforts and relays on technology will be more in trouble when that is somehow taken away from him, than another soldier who has to continuely improvise and work with his poorer euipment, I worked with some romanians in Afghanistan and I was very impressed with what they had to live with, and how good of a job they done with it..

at somepoint we wont even have piloted airplanes, already the UAV can carry ordance and hit with them, I do agree the next threat will be cyber related..

[Hoarach]

Let me make a note here. . .from a professional Intelligence Analysts standpoint - and yes, I know my kind is not popular with the boys who have their ass7 blown off, but - China and Russia are not a military threat in the conventional sense.  It is widly reported that the Russian army, Navy and Airforce are crumbling, there is a serious lack of training, a lack of recruits, and they are quite behind in technology.  Sure there are cool toys they show at airshows, but we have been lucky to get a real close look at their military capabiity both in Chechnya and more importantly in Georgia (we had boots on the ground there) - so really there is no military threat outside of mutual destruction. . .

Well hopefully Russia doesn't put too many of these out....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borei_class_submarine

[SuBWaYCH]

I always thought of it like this...

F-22: Air to air for the most part, can do air to ground. More of a specialized fighter/interceptor. Very stealthy, good "first attack" fighter.

F-35: Pretty much fills the role of a more stealthy F-18E/F. Does all tasks well, but in an A2A fight, you would most likely see an F-22 win with equal pilots.


I think the only fighter in the world that could really compete with the F-22 in a 1 vs 1 fight is an Su-47 (if it ever went live).

[macerxgp]

Reminds me of how a project to give the F-4 better engines was killed off.

It's speed approached/matched/exceeded that of the F-16. So, to save sales on the LWF, they killed the project. I always liked the idea of bringing back the Phantom. After a total cockpit redesign, of course.

Clock in the middle of the dash. My god.

Still, yeah. Upgraded Phantom would be fine for the CURRENT war. I mean, give it some water-cooled turbines and it screams like the Eagle.

On the subject of dusting off old birds, I used to wonder whether we could simply drag out the old prop jockeys and slap missiles on 'em and save tons of money. Then I realized the cost of modern aircraft comes from the systems, not the airframe. Too bad.

[caldera]

So you're saying the J-10 is trash?

(Image removed from quote.)

I would. I test flew one at the local Walmart last weekend and it was already burning oil. The worst part is the mandatory "Dealer Upgrade Pack", which is $99,999.00 for paint sealant and scotchguard.

[Bodhi]

Yeah...ok.  These are the names pilots gave this marvelous F-104 (which was retired from US service in 1975)  Also, with wing loading around 105 lbs² UNLOADED...it always made me laugh they carried Sidewinders(unless the target is an airliner, the 104 will never be able to line up on it).....In air to air, anything will eat them up. 

You might want to stop repeating ill informed propaganda, or just talk to a few experienced Starfighter pilots.  I know several people who flew the 104 and everyone of them liked the aircraft.  Everyone of them also said that if you did not respect the envelope, you were dead.  It's no different from any other airframe with a narrow flight envelope.

[FYB]

F-15 is dying... F-22, was the best, then the cost kicked in. F-35 is cheaper than the F-22 and better than the F-15, with stealth, plus it can land on carriers, and can take off vertically.

-FYB

[indy007]

So you're saying the J-10 is trash?

It had the potential to be scary, about 20 years ago. The engine is garbage, the radar is aged, it has zero low observable characteristics, and China can't even make the R-77M missiles you'd have to have for it to make a contribution in a modern air war.

[Bodhi]

It had the potential to be scary, about 20 years ago. The engine is garbage, the radar is aged, it has zero low observable characteristics, and China can't even make the R-77M missiles you'd have to have for it to make a contribution in a modern air war.

I believe someone else in here put it perfectly...  "I've seen the crap that is made in China, and I am not worried about Chinese made crap."

[macerxgp]

When I mentioned the F-4 project that was killed off for the F-16, I may have been in error. The proposal I was thinking of was the F-4X, a high-performance variant for Israel with speed similar to the SR-71 Blackbird, and offensive capabilities beyond anything currently in the USAF arsenal. Water injection was projected to give the aircraft a top speed in excess of Mach 3 (over 2,000 mph (3,200 km/h) at high altitudes). It was forced to be modified for reconnaissance use, then finally scrapped, for fears that a high-performance Phantom II would endanger sales of the F-15 Eagle (rather than the F-16 as I originally stated)

A separate IAI project was also proposed, centered around the F-4 Phantom.  This Super Phantom project was separate from the Boeing Super Phantom proposal. The IAI-made F-4 "Super Phantom" or F-4-2000 was demonstrated at the Paris Air Show in 1987. It could exceed Mach 1 without afterburners, making it the first aircraft in my knowledge with supercruise capacity. McDonnell Douglas scuttled Kurnas 2000 development because it equaled the F/A-18C/D in performance and endangered any future sales of the F/A-18. One prototype was constructed.

Source: Wikipedia

Sorry for any confusion.

[CAP1]

I believe someone else in here put it perfectly...  "I've seen the crap that is made in China, and I am not worried about Chinese made crap."

<<<<semi-hijack>>>>

you should be. isn't cessna contracting to china to build the skycatcher?

<<end semi-hijack attempt>>