Looks like the f22 production really is stopping

[CAP1]

as longs as this bad boy never geos out of production Ill be happy! they look fantastic...sound fantastic and blows the crap out of everything on the ground 

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dude, that is my new backround. 

[Spikes]

the point i was trying to make wasn't to upgrade the existing eagles anf tomcats.......it was that since there's already tooling to produce these aircraft, and with the exception of the raptor, they're still the best in the world......build new ones. incorporate the newer electronics as they're built. brand new eagles, tomcats, and hornets..........would be a force to be reckoned with.

The thing is, focusing on the F-14 here, it's a old air-frame plus we gave all of ours (or most of them) to Iran. It would be a pain to re-build Cats, but don't you think it would be worth it in the long run?? It was the best fighter the Navy's had. ike Tomcat said, you get what you pay for. We paid big bucks to get a good, solid, lethal, and sexy airframe that lasted us for a LONG time.

[Treize69]

Raptor is in its own league.  

Do you think that the F-15, 16 and 18 are better than the new stuff coming out of Europe and Russia?

I've always thought its more important that we have better trained pilots and better maintained machines than we run out and get the newest and flashiest every few years. And I still think a well flown F-16 is one of the best fighters in the world, even if it isn't cutting edge tech anymore. Its small, fast, nimble, and can carry just about any piece of ordnance in the NATO inventory. It might get beat at Red Flag and other NATO exercises- but hopefully those aren't the folks who'll be fighting against it. Its folks who've been operating and training against them for twenty years.

Can an American F-16 or F-18 beat a German or British Typhoon? Maybe not. Can it beat a former Warsaw Pact or Pacific Rim pilot in a MiG-29 or SU-27? I think so.

[TOMCAT21]

the Iranian f14's were bought in 1978ish  by the Shah of Iran. They purchased 80 but only 77 were delivered because of the Shah's fall.. of the 77 Iran has only a handful were flying as of 2008. The remaining 'Cats are in the boneyard..some are on display. Unfortunately when Grumman was bought out by Northup in the '90's they destroyed all the tooling for the Tomcat line.( )..

[eagl]

as longs as this bad boy never geos out of production Ill be happy! they look fantastic...sound fantastic and blows the crap out of everything on the ground 

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The A-10 has been out of production for a long long time.  The ones flying now are in a long-term maintenance/upgrade/refurb status.  Funded refurbishments include new wings, upgrades include a brand new digital avionics suite that can handle a targeting pod, new weapons, and GPS, and unfunded but highly desired upgrades include new engines. 

[Hoarach]

IMO I think the f18 is sexier than the f14, the sight of a f18 is beautiful.

While the a10 is a beast, I hate the sound of them.  They used to fly over my house all the time and you could hear them coming from a distance with their loud screeching engines.

[DREDIOCK]

It is crazy to be penny-wise and pound-foolish in matters of defense, espescially considering the runaway government spending (porkulus, bailouts, etc.).
Why would you not want the best possible weapon system available? The problem is that you really don't know what other nations have in the pipeline. How can you assume that what you have is going to be good enough tomorrow? Voluntarily allowing the air superiority gap to be closed when technologies of other nations are catching up, does not help our diplomatic power either. "Speak softly but carry a big stick". Upon discovering an enemy on par or even exceeding our capability is not the time to go back to the drawing board.

And at the moment we have enough to suffice. the order has been filled. Actually if memory serves correct. the order has been filled and then some.
The reality is there are other things we need that we are short of right now at this moment.
I agree its crazy to be penny wise and pound foolish when preparing for future threats. But where do you draw the line? Particularly when there are current engagements that need items now.

Its also crazy to short change the needs of our troops now for the sake of a might need for a future threat.
If the time comes. We can always reramp up production of the 22 if we need to. And since R&D of new weapons systems is still being funded. By default. Anything comming out of the pipeline in the future will be more badarse then we have today.

Not to mention that the things we are moving the money to today to address the things we are currently short of for TODAYS operations. Would also be just as needed in a future conflict. And if left unaddressed we would be even shorter of if we were to become engaged in a conflict with the likes of China.

[Spikes]

IMO I think the f18 is sexier than the f14, the sight of a f18 is beautiful.

While the a10 is a beast, I hate the sound of them.  They used to fly over my house all the time and you could hear them coming from a distance with their loud screeching engines.

But they're sooooo lethal

[whels]

This plane was so far ahead of it time, it can still kick the crap out
of alot of todays fighters.

[Treize69]

This plane was so far ahead of it time, it can still kick the crap out
of alot of todays fighters.

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As long as the opponent doesn't turn, maybe.

[bj229r]

And at the moment we have enough to suffice. the order has been filled. Actually if memory serves correct. the order has been filled and then some.
The reality is there are other things we need that we are short of right now at this moment.
I agree its crazy to be penny wise and pound foolish when preparing for future threats. But where do you draw the line? Particularly when there are current engagements that need items now.

Its also crazy to short change the needs of our troops now for the sake of a might need for a future threat.
If the time comes. We can always reramp up production of the 22 if we need to. And since R&D of new weapons systems is still being funded. By default. Anything comming out of the pipeline in the future will be more badarse then we have today.

Not to mention that the things we are moving the money to today to address the things we are currently short of for TODAYS operations. Would also be just as needed in a future conflict. And if left unaddressed we would be even shorter of if we were to become engaged in a conflict with the likes of China.

That makes me think of the MRAP thing--this vehicle wasn't the long-term thing the brass wanted to spend their limited funds on, and possibly HUNDREDS (depends on whom you ask) of kids like JunkyII got killed in Hummers when the MRAP program could have gotten ramped up after they realized what a nightmare the IED's were gonna be.

[CAP1]

But they're sooooo lethal

all of our aircraft are.

you don't hear them coming till they're gone.

[Ruah]

Sorry guys, the F22 was a waste of money, in terms of air-power, the JSF/15/18 combo is plenty. . . and tbh, its going to move more and more towards drones - since civilians don't like dead people in wars.

Let me make a note here. . .from a professional Intelligence Analysts standpoint - and yes, I know my kind is not popular with the boys who have their ass7 blown off, but - China and Russia are not a military threat in the conventional sense.  It is widly reported that the Russian army, Navy and Airforce are crumbling, there is a serious lack of training, a lack of recruits, and they are quite behind in technology.  Sure there are cool toys they show at airshows, but we have been lucky to get a real close look at their military capabiity both in Chechnya and more importantly in Georgia (we had boots on the ground there) - so really there is no military threat outside of mutual destruction. . .

China is the third largest economy in the world after the U.S. and Japan, and China and Japan combined is still less then half of the U.S. so relax.  They have a very poorly trained army, navy and airforce and their military hardwear is nowhere near even Russia's - on top of it - their Navy and Airfoce are actually managed as the Army (china only has the army) which may lead some to speculate that this would make organization better right?  wrong. . . inter departmental politics in the chinese military, the way the air and sea wings are used to support the army means China still has a LONG way to go before they can project power. 

cont.

[MORAY37]

This plane was so far ahead of it time, it can still kick the crap out
of alot of todays fighters.

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Yeah...ok.  These are the names pilots gave this marvelous F-104 (which was retired from US service in 1975)  Also, with wing loading around 105 lbs² UNLOADED...it always made me laugh they carried Sidewinders(unless the target is an airliner, the 104 will never be able to line up on it).....In air to air, anything will eat them up. 

"The Flying Coffin" from the translation of the common German public name of Fliegender Sarg. The F-104 was also called Witwenmacher ("Widowmaker"), or Erdnagel ("ground nail") – the official military term for a tent peg.[54] The Pakistani AF name was Badmash ("Hooligan"), while among Italian pilots its spiky design earned it the nickname Spillone ("Hatpin"), along with Bara volante ("Flying coffin"). Canadian pilots sometimes referred to it as the "flying lawn dart" or "Widowmaker"

[Ruah]

The real threat the U.S. faces is in Cyber-warfare, and this too is no great mystery.  The U.S. is the most networked society, and that includes our military/government/intelligence communities. . . China and Russia have been working in these fields a lot lately (lots of stories out there - and thats just the half of it imo < thats NSA/Airforce stuff. . .>) - - and the U.S. is at a major disadvantage because China and Russia (and every other country except Canada) is less networked, and thus less vulnerable to a net blackout.  So when the U.S. starts to think about the net as a security risk. . .thats when things like the F22 program just look really old-fahsioned.  

We are not going to face another airforce as great as us, we are not going to meet an army or navy that is better trained or equipped.  The future of the wars we are going to fight, other then these desert camping trips we gotta get the hell out of asap, is going to be very quiet and quite devious. . . thats the reports a lot of analysts have been writing from before 9/11. . . and 9/11 changed nothing in terms of the wars we are going to fight. . .

anyway - its a sexy plane. . . but we don't need it.