Pyro, No C-hog perk!!

[whels1]

The Chog has 20% more Kills cause its the only plane that can do every type mission
in the Arena. it can Jabo as good or better then any other plane, can A2A fight with any plane, can escort, can Anti-vehicle better then any other plane, and can take off CVs. no other plane has these abilites rolled into 1 plane. all the above make it more popular becaue its 1 plane that can do it all
fairly well, far better then its closest
competitor.

whels

 

Originally posted by RAM:
 Apache. Not nearly. The hispano has MORE THAN 100% more kills than its immediate follower, the F6F.

20% is the ammount of TOTAL AA KILLS by the Chog right now. Look Karnak's graph.

that plane is everywhere and killing everything with its god's touch death. so either we remove the unrealistic reliability and performance of the Hispanos, or you perk the plane. Simple.


BTW, again I'd go with the first  

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-09-2001).]

[whels1]

plane bigot, racist
 

whels
 

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
To all the chog flying drones, now desperatly squeaking bout the chog perk.....

stop whining! do you want cheese with your whine? whiners! crybabies!

Do any of these statmements ring a bell you chog cheerleaders? Now you guys are the whiners, how you like it?  

[whels1]

Kirin.
like i suggested earlier, either  delet the
chog and make a F4U-4C and perk it or
make the 20mm gun option on the F4U-1d and
make people pay perk points for using the 20mms each flight.

whels

 

Originally posted by Kirin:
   hehehe, feels good to be on the other side of the fence, aye, GRUNHERZ!!!  

I think there is no point in arguing any further - all points have been made clear and I suggest we just wait and see what happens!!! HTC gave you the CHog and I am sure he won't take it from you...  you have to shoot someone else down before you can fly your cannonbaby, we Luft-(wobbles, whiners, berries) cannot take part in navy operations - so what! Imagine which side you wanted to be better...

[Torgo]

We add the F4U-4C and we've got a Korean War Sim :-)

There were no cannon-armed F4U-4s in combat in World War II.

There WERE F4U-4s with 6 x .50 in WWII combat..more than there were of F4U-1Cs.

There basically has been an infinite amount of confusion over the late war Hogs..mainly because whether things have cannons or not doesn't follow a logical progression in a time sense..and also because  the "C" versions of the F4U-1 and F4U-4 both had 20mms.

Actually, if memory serves, way back in Warbirds when HT and Pyro added the F4u-4 they put one in with 20mm....there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth, until it was finally conclusively shown that a number of books on WWII had mistakenly called the F4U-1Cs that were in combat over Okinawa with 20mms F4U-4Cs.

So Pyro took the 20mms off and put the .50s on.

Again, this was a long time ago, I invite corrections to the above story..I THINK that was what happened.

So, realistically, for "uber hogs" as perk planes, you either have the regular old F4U-1 with 20mm, or a super-uber  souped up powerful and faster F4U-4 but with the old .50s..but you can't have your cake and eat it too with 20mms on the F4U-4. :-)

UNLESS Pyro ventures into having AC that never fired a shot or dropped a bomb on the enemy in WWII as perk planes..which I really hope he doesn't. AC like the P-51H and such.

Because then you start getting the "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe" psychos whining for this German semi-existent super plane that consisted of 3 prototypes and that German super plane that existed only as blueprints once you cross the pretty obvious "combat in WWII line" (NOTE I don't include the Ta-152 and suchlike in such whining..it obviously saw combat and clearly should be added as a perk plane.)

[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 01-10-2001).]

[hazed-]

vermillion my appologies but ive obviously read posts on ammo modelling and been taken in if what pyro and hitech say is true then im real glad.
Im not trying to spread false 'facts' just stuff ive read and honestly if pyro gave information to the contrary id beleive it,which as you have stated he has.
<runs a line through the ammo modelling arguement>    
however from what ive read vermillion jamming problems continued to plague hispanos in hi g manouvers right up to and including(although to a far lesser extent) the hispano MkV.
to show im not just anti hispano i give you this quote from a book ive just recently purchased.'focke-wulf Fw190 aces of the russian front' isbn 1-85532-518-7
''In the fw190 aerobatics were a pleasure!.Structurally,it was distinctly superior to the messerschmitt,especially in dives.The radial engine of the fw190A was also more resistant to enemy fire.Firepower,which varied with the particular series, was fairly even in all german fighters.The central cannon of the messerschmitt was naturally more accurate, but that was really a meaningful advantage only in fighter-to-fighter combat.The 109's 30mm cannon frequently jammed, especially in hard turns-I lost at least 6 kills this way.'
Hauptmann Heinz Lange 3./JG51 (70 kills)

As to the carrier question,I wasnt implying it was not carrier based just pointing out that in the present map its a huge bonus to be able to launch from carriers.
So in respect to me turning into GOD HELP ME ram??? no please dont even joke about it.
I take your word for it the ammo it same for everyone,I stand by what ive read on hispanos and now mk 108.and you misinterpreted my carrier statemant.  

hazed



[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 01-11-2001).]

[Hooligan]

Hazed:

I believe that every gun had increased jamming problems at high G's.

Hooligan

[gatt]

The funny thing is that when PYRO removed the 4x20mm set and put the normal 6xBrowning on, you could see very few F4U-4 around. The dweeb-crowd definitely wants 4x20mm (FW190 apart).

Thanks GOD the NIKI is not CV based.

[Vermillion]

 

The dweeb-crowd definitely wants 4x20mm (FW190 apart).

No not really Gatt   It just makes them FockeWulf Dweebs, instead of Chog Dweebs.

I think that is actually what irritates the 190 crowd so much about the Chog. It does what the 190 is suppose to do, and does it better. They are mostly upset that they don't have the exclusive rights to 4 x 20mm and tons of ammo, like in other sims.

Whats the difference between a Chog Dweeb and a 190 Dweeb?  

One's blue and the others gray.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[hazed-]

vermillion now you have upset me!

whats the difference between a 190 and a f4c?
fly them both and see which is easier to get 4-5 kills in.
I never fly air to air with 4x20mm in the 190 because it adversly affects performance so much(extra weight makes it very sluggish).I see no such adverse effects on f4c although admittedly the only comparison i have is the f4d and it has 6 guns(same weight?).190 is not a dweeb plane or we would see many more online.Id bet my house that it will never be as common in the arena as the f4c,and please dont tell me more people like it and thats why its so popular.Its an easy kill ride and so invites quaketypes.
I think it takes more skill in a 190 to do anything.(jabo,air to air,buff hunting,straffing)
Id like to see you straffe and kill a flak or panzer in a 4x20 190.I dont think ive ever seen my 20mm destroy a tank and ive given up trying in an f4c its rediculously easy.
you tell me to stop with the
propaganda ..please do the same.I do not argue against it because i want my 190 to be like it i assure you.I like the challenge of the 190 and dislike the ease with which an f4 can kill.
please state whether you think the f4c is as hard to fly as 190, Id like to hear what you think.I know what i beleive and i think im being fair.

hazed

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
No not really Gatt     It just makes them FockeWulf Dweebs, instead of Chog Dweebs.

I think that is actually what irritates the 190 crowd so much about the Chog. It does what the 190 is suppose to do, and does it better. They are mostly upset that they don't have the exclusive rights to 4 x 20mm and tons of ammo, like in other sims.

Whats the difference between a Chog Dweeb and a 190 Dweeb?    

One's blue and the others gray.

"They"? I guess I am one of the "They"? You are very wrong. I never take 4 cannons on the 190, because it's a big enough pig with just 2. Everyone in my squad does the same. The 2xMG-FF on the A5 are pretty worthless, and the outboard 2xMG151 on the A8 just aren't worth the extra weight.

------------------
LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

 

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Vermillion]

Well.. if you guys get upset about a post with lots of little smilies in them, your too thin skinned.

Hazed, the reason that the 4 cannons (versus the 6 MG's) have such little negative performance effects on the F4U has been gone over many times. Basically there is very little weight difference, in relation to the total weight of the aircraft and its engine power. So its basically correct, you SHOULD NOT see alot of difference between the -1C and the -1D. Its simple aeronautics.

But what I said in a joking manner in the rest of my statement is basically true.

Yes the 190 in AH takes more skill than the -1C, no arguement.

But the 190 takes less skill than say a 109 with a single 20mm, a Yak, or the P38. Why? They have so much more firepower and ammo, you can make mistakes and still kill in them readily. The exact same reasons the -1C is better than the 190.

Look at WB's and AW. In both, alot of players have the same attitude towards 190's, as players in AH have towards the -1C, for the exact same reason.

Thats where the FockeWulf dweebs comment comes from, because thats the attitude towards them in those games. Just like your attitudes towards the -1C.

The "feel sorry for poor little me, because the 190 is so bad" attitude is getting old. Compared to most of the planeset it has some very solid strengths, and its not a bad plane. No its not a wunderweapon, but it has strengths that you can use.

And I stand by my last statement. The reason that so many Luftwaffe pilots bitterly HATE the F4U-1C is that it takes what is historically the best qualities of the Fw190  but actually does it better. Dive, speed, high speed handling, and awesome firepower with lots of ammo, and in most games the 190 is the ONLY plane that combines these qualities.  So in effect the -1C steals the fame and position, that the 190 usually has.

Basically the -1C "out 190's" , the 190's. And that makes them very very bitter.

Sorry if the truth hurts.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 01-13-2001).]

[lazs]

I love early war and late war bores me others have different preferences.   Most will just wander away when they can't grab their favorite plane for a day, a week or even most of a tour so.... RPS is allways bad.   Those flying early and late will be fewer than mid and a good percentage of those will be squeaking as they fly.

Mid war only like current AH, like we have now is the most popular/least offensive.   Lots of planes to choose from.  Parity, choice, fairness but.... lacking a way to use early or late war planes.

Idiotic "perk" system is the worst of all worlds... 10-50% of all the planes in the arena will be noticiably or percieved better than the rest and will not be available to the new or casual flyer.... He won't care why,,  he will just know that he is getting stomped by good pilots in ac that are unavailable to him.   There is also no way to introduce early war planes.  It's backwards... It is custom made for animosity, and it is an incomplete and unworkable solution so far as early war is concerned.

There is of course a solution that would allow everyone to fly anything, early, mid and late, they wanted at any time against planes of equal ability.
lazs

[lazs]

verm... u are absolutely correct.  As u know I have been saying that a Corsair is just a better 190 for years.  Not only in the areas that you mention but, it takes off from carriers and has long range.   The 190 is more fragile and has a badly designed oil cooler that allmost guarentees an oil leak with any engine hit... rounds are "guided" right into the cooler!   The 190 automatic systems are both a blessing and a bane.   good pilots do better with the ability to fine tune.   The Corsair ailerons are boosted and operatee at even lighter pressures than the 190.   If modeled properly, 6 50's are about equal to, and in a lot of cases better than, 2 151's and 2 ff's or even 4 151's.  
lazs

[maik]

HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE, Haven't laughed that much for a while Verm. You don't want to be taken serious here, right   .

Maik

[This message has been edited by maik (edited 01-15-2001).]

[Staga]

Guess what Verm... Your attitude is getting old too.