In fact, Rich had a poor choice of words. At the end of the war (WWII), Finland actually lost some of his territory (that is, the ones it had before the Winter War) to the Soviet Union.
Ah did I forget to mention the Soviets took their slice back? Im sorry.
The first Brewsters began to arrive in Finland just before the Winter War ended. They did not arrive to the combat units in time for any action.
Yes thats true. I didn't actually say they fought in the winter war did I? No I didn't. But I could have been more clear, "late at night and hurrying".
IIRC, the declaration of war by the Western Allies on Finland was more just for show and to make Stalin happy than anything else,
Well thts one way to look at it. I know America and every other nation on eath declares war "just for show"
Another way to look at it is "the British bombed Finland cause they actually felt they were at war with Finland.
I THINK this is part of what actually drove the Finns into the alliance with Nazi Germany in the first place: They were abandoned by the West.
Another way to look at that is that the British and French were either defeated or on the verge of being defeated and simply couldn't offer any help. But truly in order to Understand Finland in WW2 you have to look past "image" and "spin" and look at "actions". Unless your a revisionist that is.
It was not a secret that Finns allowed German soldiers' "holiday transports" From Northern Norway to Germany and back through Finland. Norway was already fully occupied at that time, thus I see no knifing.
Yeah but I wonder what the Norwegians saw.
Finnish SS-men were trained in Germany in 1941 and they fought at eastern front, but their training had not ended yet when Barbarossa began. Since Finland was again at war, some officers were called back home from SS battallion. Among those was a young finnish leutenant, Lauri Törni, later known as Larry Thorne (many of you may have seen the movie Green Berets, where John Wayne plays Thorne's part)
Which means what Blauk? Someone paid an American actor enough money to portray a Finn?
The Finnish SS-men fought in Ukraine and in Caucasus. They returned home in 1943. They would have wanted to continue fighting together at Finnish front, but were instead spread out to existing units. Finland and maybe also Estonia might be the only countries not ashamed of their SS-men.
No doubt. Many in Japan and Germany aren't "ashamed" of their WW-ll soldiers. They did however eventually swear a personal oath to Adolf Hitler, wear the runes of an organization that committed monstrous crimes, and fight for a Dictator who started a war that took 50,000,000 lives. At best their active participation freed up other SS units to commit war crimes. All with the support of their own Govt. in Helsinki.
But I do understand the official Finnish position. Many Japanese consider their country a victim cause we dropped nukes on them in a war we started because we cut off trade with them due to their inhuman treatment of the Chinese and Koreans. Its all about "spin" aint it Blauk?
F
inland had declared neutrality all the time, not only after Barbarossa began. However it had also mobilized the army into its borders to defensive position, which was quite natural in that situation. Finland joined the attack against Soviets some weeks after Barbarossa began and Soviets had "techically started the war" against Finland a second time with its air strikes. Still there is no denying that Finland was planning to get back what was lost in Winter War.. and some more, if Germans were to be victorious. It was pretty much chosing between two evils when one cannot be left in peace.
Really? You dont think the Finns couldn't just tell Hitler, as Spain and Sweden did, they just didn't want to participate? BTW the Soviets didn't "technically start" the war of continuation. They allowed German combat units to launch attacks on Russia from their soil. Think America would give Mexico a pass if they allowed Cuba to attack us from their side of the border?
That agreement was made by Finnish president (cleverly) in his own name, instead of the government.
More spin. More image. More posturing. More B.S.
Again, no secret deal. When armstice with Soviets began, Germans were told that Finns will have to evict them.
Naturally Germans began to withdraw to Norway while Finns followed a day or so behind. At first here was no desire to fight the old brothers in arms who had helped to defend Finland against Soviets. Of cource there was bitterness among Germans and Finns were also forced to show some action to Soviets. Thus it became more real fighting.
So you think it was a "wide open" deal? They colluded in secret to make Stalin think the Finns were actually kicking the Germans out. That sound "secret" to you? Eventually the Germans threatened to shoot a bunch of Finnish civilians, whilst the Finns threatened to retaliate by shooting German POWs. On their way out the Germans committed a scorched earth to Finnish territory. So much for loyalty.
They had negotiated in Rovaniemi and secretly agreed that the advance of the Finnish troops would be timed to match with the Germans withdrawal schedule. On September 19 the 6th Division was ordered to start moving.
http://www.rajajoki.com/lapland.htmYes. Finns served in SS-Wiking, which was part of Waffen-SS, NOT part of Allgemeine-SS.
Wiking-division was elite fighting organisation. So why shame soldiers, whom fought hard and were part of elite?
Again, because they took a personal oath of loyalty to monster who killed 50,000,000 people and fought on his behalf in a criminal organization. We in the west have a different view of the SS then the "Master Race" Nordics do. Even of their combat units.
Good example of the fact that the "commonly accepted" history writing is basically nothing but the victors view on how things went down.
Good example of a guy who cant refute, or even comment on, that "commonly accepted history writing".
I'm glad we got to air all this out however. Some of these so-called historical comments of the Finns being "quasi-allies" fighting the same evil as we was beginning to irk me. As was the misconception that the Buffalo was a "Finnish bone", no doubt believed by my friend from Lappeenranta who decided he was "Buffalo thread commander". If anything it can be considered a bone thrown to the British commonwealth, who operated far more Brewsters then the Finns did.
Lastly, and I say this again, it is also true the Finns flew it bravely and with great skill during the War of Continuation. We'll never know to what extent but I think we can safely say all members of the Finnish armed forces fought bravely during this period.
