Author Topic: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel  (Read 4812 times)

Offline froger

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #150 on: June 13, 2009, 02:20:44 AM »
We don't know for sure that they were pirates, and that's the point. For instance they could simply be Somali militiamen out paroling; unlikely, but not beyond the realm of possibility. Should the RN (and other navies) really have the power to board foreign vessels, "confiscate" any weapons they find, and sink some or all of them just on the suspicion of piracy? Is that really the power we want to give, say the Iranian navy? Or the Chinese navy?

Here's the problem: If the RN didn't have enough evidence to actually arrest them (and the article said they didn't) how can they be justified in confiscating and destroying their property? If the cops can't prove you were speeding, should they be allowed to just confiscate any legal weapons you have and set fire to your car? Is it OK as long as they give you cab money to get home?

I don't give a flying twittle about the Somali pirates; I hope they capsized and drowned on the way home. However I do care a great deal about the abuse of power by, and unaccountability of armed government agencies, in this case the Royal Navy.


really ?

Let's see here... these chuckle heads get free rain in "international waters" and they have been free to do what they want
without constraint...Multiple ships seized (in international waters) not to mention the crews as well.
I say this.. if your floating around on the open seas with machine guns and RPGs what is the purpose for this....
FISHING??? The lesson that should be set here is send the message loud and clear, arrest the Somalians.... BBQ the row boats and seize the weapons.....EVERY TIME !!!!  Take the profit out of it and maybe they stop.   


I know ....maybe a few RAF or US navy jets start using them for target practice ...they wont be so eager to violate
someone else s rights....

I'M just sayin..... 
frogs are people too

Offline Apeotomy

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #151 on: June 13, 2009, 09:54:36 AM »
Okay, now I know you're trolling.
Only "battleships" (and there are none patrolling the waters in question) belong to sovereign nations' navies.  BIG difference, actually, no comparison. 
The warships of the various nations are out there to protect the commercial shipping lanes from your heroes.  Their goal is the prevention of the hijacking of commercial shipping and the apprehension of said criminals if possible. 
If you support the 2nd, may I suggest you find a way to get yourself out to the area, get in a little boat, go out and say HI to these poor beleaguered, misunderstood pirates and see how warm your welcome is.  Odds are, it'll be the last anyone hears from you again, unless of course, you go armed or with an escort. :aok
The last one is where you trap yourself with a paradox:  "Do I support the activity of boarding a sovereign vessel who is committing no crimes, destroying their boat, holding them captive, and then releasing them?


I don't."   :huh :huh :huh
You don't support the pirates' activities, cause they are doing just that.  Boarding forcibly, holding the ship and crew captive and for ransom, then (maybe) releasing them.  Of course, the pirates have to show their resolve by making noises about killing crew members if the ransom isn't paid.
But you also don't support anyone stopping these folks before they can attack a defenseless cargo or cruise ship?  Even tho they fit the by now well known profile of the pirates, had all the reported weaponry and tools of the trade.....the RN shoulda just left em alone?
It never ceases to amaze me, trolling or not, how some people try to spin these things....................... ....... :lol


Ok, lets make some thing clear. I am not a shade. I was a person who played this game and read (did not register) to these forums before the "new" forums rules were set out. (I think you know what im talking about). I have just now decided to join the community again. If you wish to continue to call me a troll, this is something you need to take up with Skuzzy.

Yes, the goal of the warship is to promote safety for the shipping vessels.

The second point has nothing to do with anything.

There is absolutely no paradox (Do you even understand what this is?). The African vessels that were boarded were not pirates when they were boarded. They were simply a vessel operating under Somalian law (yes Americans there are other peoples law out there).

The third point is a slipper slope arguement, do we give the state the authority to break into our houses, take use captive, blow up our cars and take our weapons just because we *might* rob a bank? No, we do not. Similarly we should not authorize the state to do the same on an international scale.

For the last time. Underneath international law this incident was LEGAL.

Whether or not the law is "Right" is another argument.


Quote
I know ....maybe a few RAF or US navy jets start using them for target practice ...they wont be so eager to violate
someone else s rights....

Yet you are willing to violate their right? To the point of murder? Do you see your hypocrisy?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 11:13:47 AM by Apeotomy »

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #152 on: June 13, 2009, 02:02:25 PM »
Yet you are willing to violate their right? To the point of murder? Do you see your hypocrisy?

No hypocrisy seen.   If you don't want to be killed by a USN Sniper or RN warship, cease the Piracy.   It's as simple as that.   You wanna take a blown out ship against a warship, prepare for a smack down.   
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Offline Apeotomy

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #153 on: June 13, 2009, 02:04:47 PM »
No hypocrisy seen.   If you don't want to be killed by a USN Sniper or RN warship, cease the Piracy.   It's as simple as that.   You wanna take a blown out ship against a warship, prepare for a smack down.   

Sure, I agree 100%.

The people we are discussing were not pirates.

Offline thrila

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #154 on: June 13, 2009, 02:34:59 PM »
they were pirates and the boats were pirates vessels.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 02:38:43 PM by thrila »
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #155 on: June 13, 2009, 02:37:21 PM »
the boat we were discussing was not the Titanic.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline froger

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #156 on: June 13, 2009, 02:40:51 PM »
Yet you are willing to violate their right? To the point of murder? Do you see your hypocrisy?


yep.....sure am....
nothing OK about armed thug gs trolling in a row boat with MGs and RPGs PERIOD!

They ain't fishing bro......

cal me a hypocrite if you want but i don't care to much about protecting the so called rights of
lawless thuggs.

I'M just sayin..........
frogs are people too

Offline Apeotomy

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #157 on: June 13, 2009, 02:45:02 PM »
Yet you are willing to violate their right? To the point of murder? Do you see your hypocrisy?


yep.....sure am....
nothing OK about armed thug gs trolling in a row boat with MGs and RPGs PERIOD!

They ain't fishing bro......

cal me a hypocrite if you want but i don't care to much about protecting the so called rights of
lawless thuggs.

I'M just sayin..........

Nothing OK about armed G's trolling in a boat with L85s and Cannons Period!

I don't care too much about preserving the rights of those who operate above the law either.

Specifically which laws did these so called "pirates" break? Where did they commit piracy?

Oh wait...

Offline froger

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #158 on: June 13, 2009, 02:48:33 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 10:58:11 AM by Skuzzy »
frogs are people too

Offline eddiek

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #159 on: June 13, 2009, 02:50:12 PM »
"Sure, I agree 100%.

The people we are discussing were not pirates."

Let's see......AK's, check!  RPG's.........check!  Small boat out in international waters, near busy shipping lanes......check!

They fit the MO of pirates, they weren't equipped like fishermen, they weren't Somali "militiamen".....what else would they be?

If they don't wanna be seen as pirates, don't act like 'em, don't arm yourselves like 'em.....

If they weren't pirates and they were so-called "militia", where's the protest from their government?

I still haven't gotten a clear answer from Apeotomy regarding his definition of a sovereign vessel.  Would the commercial shipping being stalked and hijacked be considered sovereign?  Or just the pirate vessels?  
You have to choose sides here.  Straddling the fence doesn't cut it.  
The RN actions were within the law, whether you agree with said law or not.  Something needs to be done to prevent further attacks and hijackings.  Do you have a solution, one that would prevent the pirates from attacking, insure the safety of the commercial shipping in the area, and not infringe on anyone's "rights"?

Offline froger

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #160 on: June 13, 2009, 03:02:31 PM »
See Rule #2
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 10:55:35 AM by Skuzzy »
frogs are people too

Offline Apeotomy

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #161 on: June 13, 2009, 03:11:53 PM »
Lets see... AK, check! RPG... Small boat out in international waters, near busy shipping lanes... Check!

You know what this sounds like? A person? Bingo!!!

If they don't want to be classified as pirates, they shouldn't commit acts of piracy!

Oh wait. They didn't commit any acts of piracy!

A vessel that operates under the law of an established state.

Both the commercial ship and the so called "pirate" ship fit that definition. (Still waiting for you to address which act of piracy they committed)

Yes, I agree the RN actions were within the current law.

The long term answer, would be to take the gloves off a make the Somalian economy viable again.

Edit: Froger, I would appreciate it if you would abide by the forums rules and stay on topic.

I have not completed law school.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 03:13:37 PM by Apeotomy »

Offline eddiek

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #162 on: June 13, 2009, 03:15:30 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 10:57:40 AM by Skuzzy »

Offline Apeotomy

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #163 on: June 13, 2009, 03:18:34 PM »
For Christ sake!

Please! Anyone, anyone at all, Kindly show me where these men committed an act of piracy!

Edit: ZOMG! THEY ARE PIRATES! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! I DON'T NEED TO BACK UP MY CLAIM! THEY ARE PIRATES CUZ' EVERYONE KNOWS THAT!!!!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 03:21:41 PM by Apeotomy »

Offline froger

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Re: Video: Royal Marines capture and sink pirate vessel
« Reply #164 on: June 13, 2009, 03:27:01 PM »
See Rule #2
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 10:59:41 AM by Skuzzy »
frogs are people too