Pyro/Nate: Could you add another tank type please?

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Torquila:
Lets give the Russians and the yanks T-34 and Sherman, but give the germans the "elephant" with 380mm cannon  

In my sources Elephant is 88L71 equipped heavily armored tank, with profile similar looking to Nashorn.

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by humble:
only concrete ref i've read is in user manual for Panzer Commander...mentions a tiger 2 kiling a T-34 at 4.5 kil.

Tiger I has lower velocity 88mm, 88L56 while Tiger II has higher velocity, 88L71
If I remember right, 88L71 has velocity of 1018m/s and 88L56 had 773m/s, quite much difference  
Also talking about 4km kill was about Tiger I right?

[Fishu]

My suggestion would be Sherman and T-34/76, if we go with the Pz-IVh
Next step would be Panther, T-34/85, FireFly and Jumbo.

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by pzvg:
You know the one thing I find amusing is folks extolling the virtues of the PanZerkampfwagenV (G) (guess what the caps in it mean)
and it's awesome 75mm gun    
uh, guys the pzIVH has the same gun, and both of them, (not to mention anyother tank)
just well and truely suck against aircraft.
           
(pzvg,who wants his Panther very badly,but would like a wirblwind to protect it from spit drivers)

The Panthers 75mm KwK 42(L70)Barrel length 5.25 meters. could penetrate 100 mm of armour at a 90 degree angle at 2300 meters.

The Panzer IV H has a 75mm KwK 40(L48) Barrel length 3.8 meters. I cant find exact numbers like I can for the Panther but its 100mm penatration range is more like 500m

A panther could kill a Panzer IV at over 2500 meters. A Panzer IV would have to be at very close range to penetrate the 200mm or so of frontal armour that the panther has on its hull (90/35) * 80mm of steel. It probably could not penetrate the hull and would have to hope for a turrent hit. The turrent armour is 90mm or so with a 100 mm mantlet over most of it.
It should be noted that the 75mm on the Panzer IV was no slouch. It was fine against T34s and Shermans. Out gunned most of them. The Panther was just rediculous.
Your name sake is a MUCH better tank than you know.
These where entirely different guns. They fired total different amunition to totaly different effect. Panther Batallion doctrin on the eastern front tried to keep engagments in the 2500m range.....!In AH those long range fights are much more likely.


[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 07-29-2000).]

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:
 

Originally posted by pzvg:
You know the one thing I find amusing is folks extolling the virtues of the PanZerkampfwagenV (G) (guess what the caps in it mean)
and it's awesome 75mm gun    
uh, guys the pzIVH has the same gun, and both of them, (not to mention anyother tank)
just well and truely suck against aircraft.
           
(pzvg,who wants his Panther very badly,but would like a wirblwind to protect it from spit drivers)

The Panthers 75mm KwK 42(L70)Barrel length 5.25 meters. could penetrate 100 mm of armour at a 90 degree angle at 2300 meters.

The Panzer IV H has a 75mm KwK 40(L48) Barrel length 3.8 meters. I cant find exact numbers like I can for the Panther but its 100mm penatration range is more like 500m

A panther could kill a Panzer IV at over 2500 meters. A Panzer IV would have to be at very close range to penetrate the 200mm or so of frontal armour that the panther has on its hull (90/35) * 80mm of steel. It probably could not penetrate the hull and would have to hope for a turrent hit. The turrent armour is 90mm or so with a 100 mm mantlet over most of it.
It should be noted that the 75mm on the Panzer IV was no slouch. It was fine against T34s and Shermans. Out gunned most of them. The Panther was just rediculous.
Your name sake is a MUCH better tank than you know.
These where entirely different guns. They fired total different amunition to totaly different effect. Panther Batallion doctrin on the eastern front tried to keep engagments in the 2500m range.....!In AH those long range fights are much more likely.


[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 07-29-2000).][/B]

The 2500m range came from the Tiger I's shells plonking off the Kv series. They really hated that thing  

- Jig

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:
In my sources Elephant is 88L71 equipped heavily armored tank, with profile similar looking to Nashorn.

I cannot imagine coming up against a Elephant in late 1942 or early 1943...here is a tank with the same gun as the Tiger II and armor that rivals the Jagdtiger. No doubt it made a few tank drivers wet their pants. Luckily it had no turrent  

- Jig

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:
Tiger I has lower velocity 88mm, 88L56 while Tiger II has higher velocity, 88L71
If I remember right, 88L71 has velocity of 1018m/s and 88L56 had 773m/s, quite much difference  
Also talking about 4km kill was about Tiger I right?

It was a Tiger II, I don't think the Tiger has enough elevation or power to chuck a shell that far, with any power to kill with.

The 88L56 was much more of a multipurpose gun then the 88L71, and often doubled for a field artillary piece  

While the L71 was a very good gun in all aspects, it's strong point was anti-tank.

- Jig

[Jigster]

Hmmm 60 some odd posts and no response from the HTC crew so far...guess we can speculate and accumulate all we want  

- Jig
-------
Is this thing on?

[Pongo]

Jig
No worry about meeting a Ferdinand in 42 or early 43. It was introduced at Kursk(summer 43)
The 2500m doctrine was because they could kill the T34 at that range(and hit it because of all that velocity)

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:
Jig
No worry about meeting a Ferdinand in 42 or early 43. It was introduced at Kursk(summer 43)
The 2500m doctrine was because they could kill the T34 at that range(and hit it because of all that velocity)

I was kidding about the Kv...although it's probably not far from the truth  

- Jig

[pzvg]

Ok pongo I stand corrected on the barrel length, but BFD, <shrugs> we got mkIV's offing mkIV's with frontal shots at 2.6, how would the Panther destabilize <sp> something as far outta whack as this? Jeez I see guys here pushing for the T34-85, a tank that is still considered a threat (minor one,but on the list) today.
FyI the Elefant more correctly known as the Ferdinand, was a tank destroyer, not a tank  
And the folks with books spread in front of them (steading trying to quote from memory like a true grognard   ) still gloss over the fact that this place is not good tank country, too little vegetation and too many damn planes  
(So in fact you-all be sayin thet mah lil ol'
pinter be a mite daanegeroos, an' you-uns be askeert?)
Go on pyro, give 'em the sucky little T-34, and the lovely little tracked cigerette lighters, as long as you give me a downed pilot figure,with button 2 as a gunsight per the panzer, only my loadout be 4 HE shells with short range, Pfaust anyone?  
note: pfausts would only be disabled at a field by destroying the barracks, oh and no bloody icons if you please, let's see how bad these DATwannabees are when they can't see the little sneaky devils    
(Pzvg, who as a tanker has a healthy respect for AT Teams)    

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"