The 1 pass T-34 kill

[Rich46yo]

what is it that turns it on? alt-x i think?

i know that making any trim adjustments will disable it, but i don't remember how to turn it on.......

Yeah, cntl/x. But if your going to be in IL-2s a lot you'll going to have to find a quicker way to toggle it. Either map it to a joystick or change the game mapping to a 1 key command for C-trim. I fly IL-2s so much I have my own entirely separate mode for them. Heres another tip. The IL-2 can climb, or auto/climb at 100mph without stalling and without flaps. Useful if you want to force an overshoot.

If I see an energy fighter diving me from the rear, and I know I cant evade, I'll often hit auto/climb "pre-set to 100 mph", rudder sharply, and jump into the rear tail gun to shoot back. If he over shoots I'll pop back into pilots seat and blow him up with the 37mms. This is also useful to regain Alt quickly. The plane is tough enough to auto/climb at 100mph, when your going 200 mph+, and hold together.

The IL-2 rolls pretty good too. And its flaps extend at high speed.

If it wasnt for enemy fighters I'd probably bring convergance in even closer. Like to 300. I dont think you can get close enough to gun tanks. Tho you do have to be careful you dont lawn dart, or hit trees.

[Bronk]

Rich if i may make a suggestion to make your tank plinking a bit easier.

Move your head position up a bit.  You can use that top vertical line where it meets the inner circle

[Rich46yo]

Thanks. But I already use a cursor sight that I lock into the middle. For some reason it doesnt show up on video or still pics.

[waystin2]

Great shot placement Rich and certainly using the plane as it was historically.  The actual 37mm cannons were not sychronized (unlike the ingame version) so more than a 2-3 round burst would actually take your aimsite and walk the dog so to speak. 

[Rich46yo]

Great shot placement Rich and certainly using the plane as it was historically.  The actual 37mm cannons were not sychronized (unlike the ingame version) so more than a 2-3 round burst would actually take your aimsite and walk the dog so to speak. 

What is this? "Bump and Pray redux"? But thanks for the courtesy nontheless.

Geez I'm really sorry your little cartoon GV is getting blowed up but air power was a serious threat to tanks and GVs back in the war as well. And back then they couldn't send one drone on a suicide run in his Typhie, to take out 2 ords bunkers at an airbase, and then attack in GVs safe from Ords and air power. Just be glad they dont give us the PTAB-2.5-1.5 HEAT bomblets. Imagine the whining then?

Do you ever fly them? You might learn tank tactics to lessen their effectivness.

[waystin2]

What is this? "Bump and Pray redux"? But thanks for the courtesy nonetheless.

Geez I'm really sorry your little cartoon GV is getting blowed up but air power was a serious threat to tanks and GVs back in the war as well. And back then they couldn't send one drone on a suicide run in his Typhie, to take out 2 ords bunkers at an airbase, and then attack in GVs safe from Ords and air power. Just be glad they dont give us the PTAB-2.5-1.5 HEAT bomblets. Imagine the whining then?

Do you ever fly them? You might learn tank tactics to lessen their effectivness.

Absolutely no whineing here Rich, it is something that I simply never do.  No actually I primarily drive a Wirbel, and I eat more than get eaten.  So it is not a problem with being killed more than I am killing.  Rather is a problem in the models historical accuracy.  As far as tanks, I have learned to give them fits by running around obstacles (trees and buildings) to lessen the chance of being hit.  To bring the main gun to bear for the folks that like high angles I will pull the tank up onto a hill, and force a gun to gun showdown if possible.  Be proud of me though Sir, as I actually did some reading on this particular bird to better understand it's weaknesses.  During my studies I came across the documentation about the unsynch'ed guns and the problems with both aircraft control and gun accuracy they caused when firing in a sustained manner.  You Sir are a valid threat because you can fly the bird to it's strengths whether HTC chooses to correct the model or not.  You have to admit that most IL-2 pilots fly the plane in a manner that would not be feasible if the unsynched guns get correctly modeled. 

Have a great day,

Way

[Rich46yo]

You have to admit that most IL-2 pilots fly the plane in a manner that would not be feasible if the unsynched guns get correctly modeled. 

You can pretty much say that about any GV or airplane in the game. Thats my point. Most of all the wirbel.

I'm glad you read up on this great, historical attack/bomber. You probably also read the thing was almost imposable to bring down with fighter guns alone. The IL-2s real enemy was the 88mm flak the Germans learned to use with effectiveness against low flying aircraft as well as high. Flights of IL-2s literally decimated tank columns, taking out dozens of tanks at a time.

Personally I'd like to see two easy changes that would benefit the Tank drivers in the game. #1 is, of course, get rid of these Lanc-stuka dive bombing, heavy 4 engined bombers. Change the flight model to force them to bomb level. #2 would be to allow a re-arm/tower pad at, or near, a spawn. At the least allow a tower pad so crippled GVs, or GVs with kills, that spawn to an attack also have a chance to tower out as well. The rules now say you must be at least, what?, 5 km from an enemy? Well thats unreasonable. And as a rule all it does is limit tanks attacking, most of all perk tanks.

Overall I see "balance" right now. No its not perfect, and I think my two changes would help, but I believe the systems balance themselves out. At TT, or at most GV vs GV base battles you never see many IL-2s. I myself dont get into those fights most of the time. But if your attacking a Rook airbase you had probably better bring the gang with you. Ive seen both Bish and Knit use Tanks, flak, aircraft, very effectively so it can be done. But the days of King Bubba in his Tiger towering out with 40 kills from his camp are probably over.

[Bronk]

Absolutely no whineing here Rich, it is something that I simply never do.  No actually I primarily drive a Wirbel, and I eat more than get eaten.  So it is not a problem with being killed more than I am killing.  Rather is a problem in the models historical accuracy.  As far as tanks, I have learned to give them fits by running around obstacles (trees and buildings) to lessen the chance of being hit.  To bring the main gun to bear for the folks that like high angles I will pull the tank up onto a hill, and force a gun to gun showdown if possible.  Be proud of me though Sir, as I actually did some reading on this particular bird to better understand it's weaknesses.  During my studies I came across the documentation about the unsynch'ed guns and the problems with both aircraft control and gun accuracy they caused when firing in a sustained manner.  You Sir are a valid threat because you can fly the bird to it's strengths whether HTC chooses to correct the model or not.  You have to admit that most IL-2 pilots fly the plane in a manner that would not be feasible if the unsynched guns get correctly modeled. 

Have a great day,

Way

So you also have a problem with the wirb firing quad mode nonstop right?
Because as you know historically speaking it couldn't. Only firing 2 guns at at time could it fire non stop.

[Rich46yo]

Heres another example of the power of just one well placed 37mm AP round. I started off seeing this T-34 heading at full steam in towards our town. I approached from the rear hoping to get the high rear angle shot in, however, he got cute and turned hard to the side when he saw me approach. So I came in real close and took 3 volleys of two shots each.
                                                                                             


Heres the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNdMf-uf3Vg

On the strength of that one shot I got him smoking. Another plane finished him but I got the kill. Now one well placed AP round, our of 6 fired, from a high attack angle to the top of his turret did more damage then the 2nd plane hosing him with a bunch of rounds from a low/flat attack angle. As more time goes on the less and less AP rounds I use to kill GVs. I dont even start shooting until 400 away and if I dont have a good angle on my target I'll pass it and set up for a 2nd run.

I actually got the idea to start attacking this way, well, from actual history, from wasting a bunch of rounds experimenting, from changing up cause we got some good gunners in the game who will murder an IL-2 with their main gun, and from remembering how Lusche attacks bombers.

I hope this this thread has made some kind of contribution to the game.

[Kweassa]

Geez I'm really sorry your little cartoon GV is getting blowed up but air power was a serious threat to tanks and GVs back in the war as well.

Not as much as you'd think. Groundattack aircraft in general, had very little chance of actually damaging a tank. The 'serious threat' mostly came in the form of interdiction. Ofcourse, planes designed specifically for ground attack/AT role had a much better chance than most, so the IL-2 would indeed be considered a 'serious threat' for most vehicles, but as a whole 'air power' was very limited/

And back then they couldn't send one drone on a suicide run in his Typhie, to take out 2 ords bunkers at an airbase, and then attack in GVs safe from Ords and air power. Just be glad they dont give us the PTAB-2.5-1.5 HEAT bomblets. Imagine the whining then?

I'm waiting for the 88mm. Let's see how close them IL-2 can come in with player-manned 88mm flaks protecting the GVs.

[waystin2]

So you also have a problem with the wirb firing quad mode nonstop right?
Because as you know historically speaking it couldn't. Only firing 2 guns at at time could it fire non stop.

I know that Lusche has put forward some info about turret traverse rate and rate of fire sustained.  Do I think things need to be accurate, yes.  Can they all be totally accurate?  HTC decides what and how much "accuracy" to put into the models.  The information for both the IL-2 and the Wirbelwind are out there for HTC to digest and utilize if they so choose.

[Rich46yo]

Not as much as you'd think. Groundattack aircraft in general, had very little chance of actually damaging a tank. The 'serious threat' mostly came in the form of interdiction. Ofcourse, planes designed specifically for ground attack/AT role had a much better chance than most, so the IL-2 would indeed be considered a 'serious threat' for most vehicles, but as a whole 'air power' was very limited/
I'm waiting for the 88mm. Let's see how close them IL-2 can come in with player-manned 88mm flaks protecting the GVs.

Actually my comments were directed towards the IL-2. Since the thread was IL-2 oriented I didnt point that out, but maybe I should have.

Ive always been for 88mm AA. They were a huge factor in the air war and they should be in AH, despite the fact that they will be a serious threat to IL-2s.

[usvi]

Sweet! Nice shootin'...unless it was me

[Rich46yo]

Sweet! Nice shootin'...unless it was me

Thanks. But a lot of times it aint that easy. Like today the Bish took the high ground away from us and made it very hard to get high angles on he Tanks. Plus they use WWs very effectively. Ideally you want about 1,500' of air to set up your attack run on a tank and then they take that away from you then you have to go in at flatter angles, running the risk of getting clobbered by main guns.

Strange but the M3s are tough little buggers to take out. Not only are they fast, they also "sometimes" have side plates like a Battleship, and the single 0.50 on it is surprisingly effective at hitting the oil on the Storm birds, forcing you to land.

[Rich46yo]

Panzer are relitively easy to kill. But still, they can take multiple passes if not hit right the first time just any other GV. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mhL9QJe6LE Shows my belief in get close, get closer, and fewer rounds expended being made up for with shot placement. I came down after the initial volley and killed the Panzer with a quick burst from about 300 to 250 away. The first two missed, the last two were unneeded, so the tank was basically put down with one 3 volley burst from point blank range at about a 30% to 40% dive angle. Ive also come in much steeper.

About the only GV I fire farther from , other then the WW, is the titanium plated M-3 With its laser guided , radiator killing, single 0.50 . Even the open turret WWs are far harder to kill then the Panzer-lV, despite both being the same chassis.

As for tanks? You cant get close enough. Im going to experiement with a convergance of 300 instead of 400 and see if thats better. Many times one single round, if its placed in the boiler room, and gets a tank smoking, will eventually get you the kill even if sombody else finishes it off.