Collisions And Credit For Kills....

[Saxman]

Yes, seriously.  Stop thinking of it in terms of traffic collisions and who is at fault.  The program doesn't, and can't, care about any such things.  All it knows is that on your front end two aircraft tried to occupy the same space, thus the collision.  If two aircraft had tried to occupy the same space on your oponent's front end then he too would have had a collision.

Remember, unlike reality where a collision involved two objects, in AH we are talking about four objects.  You on your front end, the image of your oponent on your front end, your opponent on his front end and your image on your opponent's front end.  Due to the time it takes data to move across the internet those your oponent's position will never be the same on your front end as it is on his front end and likewise your position will never be the same on your front end as it is on his front end.

That is why collisions happen as they do in AH.


Specifically, in your example, your opponent had no way to avoid hitting you as you were not there to be hit on his front end, thus the responsibility to avoid the collision must be on you.

I still think the best solution is the only record collisions that occur on BOTH FEs.

[moot]

Why would you fudge it like that?  How does that make more sense than collisions matching what happens on your screen?

[Karnak]

I still think the best solution is the only record collisions that occur on BOTH FEs.

Problem with that is it makes it pretty safe to fly through your opponent, guns blazing.  It is easy to hit from 0 feet.

It would cause a massive distortion of tactics compared to real world tactics.

[waystin2]

It would cause a massive distortion of tactics compared to real world tactics.

This would be my biggest concern with this sort of setup.

[moot]

Yep... For no good reason either.  How is it an improvement over getting what you see?

[StokesAk]

lmao Grape love you singnature!

[alskahawk]

 "Only you can cause or prevent a collision. Amazing how many people don't want to accept that." 

 Most collisions in AH are caused by attempted HOs or by newer players that have not used to chasing small icons. Lower the HOs lower the collisions. The collision model is flawed. 2 planes traveling at 250+mph bump into each other and almost always one survives? How often does that happen in real life? Bear in mind that most collisions in real life are not at the aircraft attitudes we are simulating.
 

[BnZs]

The collision model is flawed. 2 planes traveling at 250+mph bump into each other and almost always one survives? How often does that happen in real life? Bear in mind that most collisions in real life are not at the aircraft attitudes we are simulating.
 

Oh boy...

Read the other posts in this thread again.

When one player gets a "you have collided message" and the other does not, it is because on THEIR screen a collision occurred, while on the other players screen there was *no* collision. What you see is what you get. What would you suggest to change this? Get rid of collisions entirely? Or fix it to where the guy who clearly dodged the enemy plane on *his* screen gets tagged by the collide anyway? These are your only two possibilities, neither is an improvement.

[alskahawk]

 Ya we have argued this point before. And no doubt it will keep coming up until its gone or fixed. Fix the model. If your going to model collisions apply them to all aircraft or get rid of them. Getting rid of collisions is an improvement over the model we have now.
 Yesterday I got hit in the underside of the aircraft, same type aircraft..His canopy hits my underside, I died instantly he lived to continue flying. That's your idea of a good collision model?
 Yet you say that niether idea is an improvement? AW and other MMO's don't or didn't model collisions yet they were still fun. There are plenty of things that are not modeled in this game. Getting rid of collisions isn't a that big a negative.

[moot]

They are applied to all aircraft.

Getting rid of collisions isn't a that big a negative.

Getting rid of collisions means ACM changes entirely.  What positive do you get?  The exemption from having to know and execute proper ACM?  The dumbing down of air combat?

[BnZs]

now.
 Yesterday I got hit in the underside of the aircraft, same type aircraft..His canopy hits my underside, I died instantly he lived to continue flying. That's your idea of a good collision model?

On his screen he cleanly passed you. What would you suggest? He maneuvers based on what he *actually sees on his screen* and misses you yet you would give him a collide because of what you saw on *your* screen (something he has *no way* of knowing or reaction to)?

Well, okay...how about this...you pull lead on a bandit for a guns solution and land a ton of hits...but they aren't awarded because on *his* screen it looks like your nose was still in lag pursuit (due to the net lag) and couldn't *possibly* have had the deflection needed for a gun deflection? The scenario I describe here happens all the time due to net lag and the suggestion I offer is about as fair and workable as your collision suggestion.

Yet you say that niether idea is an improvement? AW and other MMO's don't or didn't model collisions yet they were still fun. There are plenty of things that are not modeled in this game. Getting rid of collisions isn't a that big a negative.

Yes, Air Warrior had neither collisions nor front-quarter shots and by all accounts that reduced realism and introduced flaws into the ACM that are not workable in a more realistic sim like AH.

Getting rid of collisions would destroy ACM. It would make many sorts of overshoots impossible, if anything it would increase the number HOers be decreasing the risk associated with that maneuver. And there is absolutely no need for it whatever, since the collision model is not flawed. If you don't want a collide, don't run into other planes, that simple.

[jolly22]

yes im all against hoing in the game, BUT were people that did it in WW2. Kamikazes (divine wind) Didn't just cllide wit hships but with other planes also.. So i doubt that aces high will subtract kills from ho's due to historical reasons.

[alskahawk]

 Fix the model or drop collisions. Period. Want realism. Model them for all aircraft. Model collisions accurately. Two opposing aircraft traveling at 400mph+ touch and only one dies? How can one person have a collision but not the other? Both aircraft should be damaged and in the majority of cases both would die or lose their aircraft.

 Realism? Really? In this game? Come on! Do you really think that on a given day the WW2 pilot saw 20 or 30 different types of aircraft? From 5 or more nations? Let alone the speculative performance aspects of the individual aircraft. Lets not even get into the GVs. Thats a whole bunch of inaccurate bull.
 By the way you could HO in AW.

[moot]

Fix the model or drop collisions. Period. Want realism. Model them for all aircraft. Model collisions accurately.

How much more realistic do you want it than collisions registering as they happen?

Two opposing aircraft traveling at 400mph+ touch and only one dies?

Anecdotic..

How can one person have a collision but not the other?

Latency. Less-than-instantaneous networking = necessity to compensate with predictive code. Why does this not make sense to you?

[Lusche]

How can one person have a collision but not the other?

First picture shows the P-51 players screen, second picture is what happens on the Jug pilots screen - at exact the very moment of collision. (See the "Lusche collided with you" message on second picture)

Only the 51 took damage from this.