P-47M whine whine whine

[Wingnutt]

add the M, and add the serious engine teething issues along with it.

the same amount of teething issues as are modeled in the 163, 262.. etc

[StokesAk]

I started flying the P47-N more, why do we need the M the N is well on the deck already.

[Wingnutt]

I started flying the P47-N more, why do we need the M the N is well on the deck already.

the N decent, but not great when on wep, when off wep, its performance is poor.  especially down low.

that and the fact that we have the best Corsair, the Tempest, best P51, best 190, best spitfire, best 109..  but not the best P47.

[moot]

Best K4 is the one at 1.98ata.  Pretty sure there's a D9 with higher boost too.  The 51D we have isn't on 150 octane.  We don't have the 21, or XII spits running with max earl gray dosage and best tea-ware equipment.

[Wingnutt]

Best K4 is the one at 1.98ata. 

moot point.. moot

[moot]

It's a moot point that we don't have the best K4 which would be, by your argument, the requirement for adding a matching "Best" 47?

[Wingnutt]

It's a moot point that we don't have the best K4 which would be, by your argument, the requirement for adding a matching "Best" 47?

right, but the "non" best K4 we have, is a monster, the best jug we have.. is not.

[Stoney]

right, but the "non" best K4 we have, is a monster, the best jug we have.. is not.

What's the requirement that the Jug have a "monster" version available?  Aside from the D23, we have the most representative versions from the war era in game already.  No Jug in the MA will ever be a "monster" because of its weight.  And, IMO, the November represents the "best" version of the Jug, and it certainly represents the "best" version historically.  Just because the characteristics that made it dominant in real life don't avail themselves to a "monster" MA aircraft doesn't mean anything.  The November is more than competitive in the MA as it is. 

[moot]

My thoughts too.  It's a jug.

[Wingnutt]

What's the requirement that the Jug have a "monster" version available?  Aside from the D23, we have the most representative versions from the war era in game already.  No Jug in the MA will ever be a "monster" because of its weight.  And, IMO, the November represents the "best" version of the Jug, and it certainly represents the "best" version historically.  Just because the characteristics that made it dominant in real life don't avail themselves to a "monster" MA aircraft doesn't mean anything.  The November is more than competitive in the MA as it is. 

the N was specialized long-range version designed specifically for service in the Pacific theatre.  nothing more. 

same engine as the M, but tuned and propped for maximum range, not performance.

the N is not competitive in no real sense at all when compare to the other aircraft it shares the 5ENY pool with.  Its acceleration, climb, maneuverability are all below average to poor, put next to an LA7, Tempest, hog-4, spit16 and 14, it looks downright pitiful.  Someone who REALLY knows what they are doing, and how to pick their fights can do pretty well in it, but calling it competitive is silly.  Competitive rides can be flown with at lease some degree of success in the MA by novice pilots, the N cannot.

the M was the pinnacle of P47 development, superior to the N in every conceivable way except range, and would make a far more attractive ride under typical MA conditions than the N ever will.  It would be to the P47s what the -4 is to the Corsairs.

No Jug in the MA will ever be a "monster" because of its weight.

Climb rate of 3,700 fpm
460mph at 28K
400mph at only 10k

it hauled its fat bellybutton around pretty well.

[Karnak]

The problem with the P-47M is that it was extremely rare (56th FG only as I recall) so adding it to AH isn't about filling in the big gaps in the planeset, it is about giving P-47 fans the absolute best air-to-air P-47 there was, regardless of its significance or lack thereof.

[moot]

It'd certainly climb better... 800fpm better. But 460@28 and 400@10 looks not much different from the N.

[Stoney]

the N was specialized long-range version designed specifically for service in the Pacific theatre.  nothing more.

Anyway you can better marginalize a fighter that could fly 12 hour missions, faster than a D model, and hit just as hard?  The November was, technologically, close to the pinnacle of piston fighter development during WWII.  Ergonomics, autopilot, simplified engine controls, etc.  Sure, a lot of stuff that makes no difference in AH2, but significant none-the-less.

same engine as the M, but tuned and propped for maximum range, not performance.

Wrong.  There's no such thing as "tuned and propped for maximum range".  You can fly for maximum range, but the powerplants were the same and performed the same.  The basic difference between the two aircraft were weight, airframe, and fuel capacity.

the N is not competitive in no real sense at all when compare to the other aircraft it shares the 5ENY pool with.  Its acceleration, climb, maneuverability are all below average to poor, put next to an LA7, Tempest, hog-4, spit16 and 14, it looks downright pitiful.  Someone who REALLY knows what they are doing, and how to pick their fights can do pretty well in it, but calling it competitive is silly.  Competitive rides can be flown with at lease some degree of success in the MA by novice pilots, the N cannot.

Sour grapes.  Just because its not easy doesn't make it non-competitive.  I'm not going to change your mind, so I won't try.  I guarantee if you started a poll, most folks that have been around the game for more than a few months would consider the N-Jug competitive in the air-to-air MA. 

the M was the pinnacle of P47 development, superior to the N in every conceivable way except range, and would make a far more attractive ride under typical MA conditions than the N ever will.  It would be to the P47s what the -4 is to the Corsairs.

I won't disagree that the M would be more competitive in the MA.  But, it was not the pinnacle of P-47 development--it was merely an up-engined P-47D. 

Climb rate of 3,700 fpm
460mph at 28K
400mph at only 10k

it hauled its fat bellybutton around pretty well.

And will still get shot down in the MA when it gets low and slow, just like a November Jug.

[Widewing]

It'd certainly climb better... 800fpm better. But 460@28 and 400@10 looks not much different from the N.

It should be 470 mph @ 28k and 401 @ 10k, compare to 461 mph @ 28k and 392 mph @ 10k.

It's not a great deal faster, between 8 and 10 mph at all altitudes. The biggest difference will be in acceleration, climb and low-speed handling. Being more than 3,000 pounds lighter (fully loaded) will be quite noticeable. It will be significantly better than the N model below corner speed.

That pretty much sums up the differences.


My regards,

Widewing

[BnZs]

Sour grapes.  Just because its not easy doesn't make it non-competitive.  I'm not going to change your mind, so I won't try.  I guarantee if you started a poll, most folks that have been around the game for more than a few months would consider the N-Jug competitive in the air-to-air MA. 

Most people on these forums could get kills with a Cessna 172 armed with a 9mm pistol. This prevents them from analyzing the plane vs. plane situation rationally.

The N is an under performer in where the typical MA fight occurs (its ENY is an abomination). The M will be a notch better, still not an uberplane. IMO, the N deserves an ENY of about 15 and the M will need one of around 8-10.