P-47M whine whine whine

[Stoney]

If the M model is added all the other jugs would become hangar queens.

First, it would carry a perk price probably.  Second, as a result, it would see about as much use as a F4U-4, at least after the initial shine of its introduction wore off, and folks realized it was just a more powerful D model.  Depending on how its configured, (the 56th FG combat version with a dorsal fin and wing pylons, or the factory version without either) it could see a lot of use in the air-to-air role, but limited use in air-to-ground.  Even if HTC gives it pylons, which could fit bombs, it would be without rocket rails, and those that use the Jug merely for bomb-trucking would up a D-40 or N before an M.

[Saurdaukar]

I'm all for the P-47M being added in AH.

+1

[Wingnutt]

If the M model is added all the other jugs would become hangar queens.

not really

1: probably no ord, defiantly no rockets.

2: 5eny or perked.

that and, with jugs at least, there are people who will still prefer the razorback ,or the D25... 

[dev1ant]

What sort of idiot are you?  None of us are advocating "uber" planes be added.  I have no idea how you got the exact opposite message from what we are saying.  We are saying that adding a historically insignificant fighter just because it is "uber" is not a good idea in our opinions.  If HTC adds the P-47M, they add it, but I think the time would be better spent on other, more significant, aircraft like, say, the Ki-43 or Yak-1 or Yak-7 or Beaufighter or C.200 or G4M2 or He111 or Wellington or Pe-2 or ect, ect...

Last time I checked the B-239 was a historically insignificant plane to everyone except the Finns, but that is added.  On top of that there were what, 44 produced?  It seems like your requirements for what "should" be added are rather inconsistent.

[Hooligan]

The 2 planes we are getting in the next release are good scenario planes.  The M would be a good (but not great) MA plane.  With WEP on, its speed, climb and acceleration would be very similar to that of a 51D.  Without WEP its climb and acceleration would be on the poor side, and it's top speed would not be impressive particularly considering the poor acceleration.  This is not an aircraft which is likely to push N1Ks, Spits, 51s or LAs down the popularity list.  Except for the jabo role, the existing 47s ARE hangar queens.  They just aren't that good below 15k where 99% of the MA action takes place.  After the newness has worn off the 47M would probably hold a place in the 2nd tier of popularity in fighters (109s, F4Us, 190s, Kis, F6Fs):  Something that would not be rare but certainly not pervasive like Spit XVIs.  It would be nice to have a 47 that was competitive in the MA.

[Karnak]

Last time I checked the B-239 was a historically insignificant plane to everyone except the Finns, but that is added.  On top of that there were what, 44 produced?  It seems like your requirements for what "should" be added are rather inconsistent.

As soon as you add "except" to the comment an aircraft is no longer insignficant.


There are several P-47s in AH that are competitive in the MA.

[Wingnutt]

The 2 planes we are getting in the next release are good scenario planes.  The M would be a good (but not great) MA plane.  With WEP on, its speed, climb and acceleration would be very similar to that of a 51D.  Without WEP its climb and acceleration would be on the poor side, and it's top speed would not be impressive particularly considering the poor acceleration.

for starters, top speed has nothing to do with acceleration, look at the K4 VS the 51D, K4 accelerates like a scaulded ape, the 51D like a dead goat.. but the 51D has a higher top speed.

climb rate is tied to acceleration (for the most part)  but top speed takes in many more factors (drag coefficient for example)

furthermore.

the M's climb and acceleration are far better than the 51D, top speed without wep is the dark side of 400mph at only 10k.  It would be a VERY competitive MA ride, good speed, acceleration, climb, great guns.  Hell it would need to be perked.

the said thing, is the information you would have needed to read before making such an uninformed post, is right here in this thread...

Climb rate of 3,700 fpm
460mph at 28K
400mph at only 10k

[BnZs]

The P-47M will *not* deserve a perk on the basis of its a2a capacity. At typical MA alts it will still be a fast plane with a relatively high wing loading and an unremarkable climb rate. When the 5 minutes of joy are exhausted, it won't even be remarkably fast at low alts, and several planes will still be as fast or faster under typical MA conditions. The La7 for instance, will still out-run, out-climb, out-accelerate, and out-turn the M, the Spixteen will still out-everything it in every respect against speed. The M will not be in the same league as the F4U-4, a plane which very little unperked can out-run, and which can turn with virtually everything in the game. That is why I hope our version *doesn't* have ordinance if people insist perkage revolve around that matter. Perking it would virtually guarantee that it was rarely used as an ord truck anyway, so we might as well get the fighter version. Lack of pylons will make it that much hotter anyway.

[bj229r]

The P-47M will *not* deserve a perk on the basis of its a2a capacity. At typical MA alts it will still be a fast plane with a relatively high wing loading and an unremarkable climb rate. When the 5 minutes of joy are exhausted, it won't even be remarkably fast at low alts, and several planes will still be as fast or faster under typical MA conditions. The La7 for instance, will still out-run, out-climb, out-accelerate, and out-turn the M, the Spixteen will still out-everything it in every respect against speed. The M will not be in the same league as the F4U-4, a plane which very little unperked can out-run, and which can turn with virtually everything in the game. That is why I hope our version *doesn't* have ordinance if people insist perkage revolve around that matter. Perking it would virtually guarantee that it was rarely used as an ord truck anyway, so we might as well get the fighter version. Lack of pylons will make it that much hotter anyway.

That largely describes the N

[moot]

The 47M's powerloading is only a little better than the 51D's, compared to the K4.  The D11's is slightly better than the M's.. This is as far as acceleration to respective top speeds goes.

That's in dogfighting trim (ammo for 10 kills, ~12-15min fuel @ wep). They're less competitive when loaded.  

[Wingnutt]

The 47M's powerloading is only a little better than the 51D's, compared to the K4.  The D11's is slightly better than the M's.. This is as far as acceleration to respective top speeds goes.
(Image removed from quote.)
That's in dogfighting trim (ammo for 10 kills, ~12-15min fuel @ wep). They're less competitive when loaded.  

are you saying the D11 would accelerate faster than the M?

how is that even remotely possible?

does that take into account the M having the Curtiss Electric paddle prop?

its hard to imagine how the M, could have so much higher rate of climb than the D11 (or any other jug) and not also accelerate faster.



and for those who keep saying the M would be similar or not much better than the N, take into account that the M has almost the same rate of climb at 52Hg, as the N does at 72Hg..  pulling 72Hg the M hits just shy of 4000fpm..

[moot]

"Respective to their top speeds".  How different, aerodynamically, are the N, M, and D-11?

[Wingnutt]

"Respective to their top speeds".  How different, aerodynamically, are the N, M, and D-11?

I see, so its not like the 200-350mph acceleration rating (as seen on sodas) but more a % of top speed..  got ya 


the razorback is more slippery than either, the M is about 300 pounds lighter than the N, about 300 heavier than the D11.  so I guess the D11 being lighter and more streamlined would indeed lend itself to faster acceleration than expected..

this does not seem to be true in game though, so far as I can tell, its acceleration is pretty much indistinguishable from the D40.

[moot]

I'm no aerohead Wingnutt.  I'm just trying to piece together what bits I do know matter, so that this argument on the M is accurate and understandable for everyone

From what I've read recently, weight doesn't mean much for top speed.  It's important for acceleration, obviously (F=MA).  You mentionned the M's prop was something special?  Can you quantify exactly how the D-11 is more slippery than the others?

Just realized that I misread the charts.  Disregard my comment on the D-11's powerloading.. Do you know exactly how much power our D-11's engine makes? 2535hp is what I've found, but it's not specified for which D model that is.  And our N does make 2450hp, doesn't it?
This page says it used the R-2800-21, making 2300hp @ wep.

edit -  way too many inconsistencies in what I've said, disregard it.

[Wingnutt]

I'm no aerohead Wingnutt.  I'm just trying to piece together what bits I do know matter, so that this argument on the M is accurate and understandable for everyone

From what I've read recently, weight doesn't mean much for top speed.  It's important for acceleration, obviously (F=MA).  You mentionned the M's prop was something special?  Can you quantify exactly how the D-11 is more slippery than the others?

Just realized that I misread the charts.  Disregard my comment on the D-11's powerloading.. Do you know exactly how much power our D-11's engine makes? 2535hp is what I've found, but it's not specified for which D model that is.  And our N does make 2450hp, doesn't it?
This page says it used the R-2800-21, making 2300hp @ wep.

the D11 is more streamlined butcause it doesent have a bubble canopy.