Bearcat?

[Enduro]

Just curious...is AH considering modelling the Bearcat?

Enduro

[funkedup]

Bearcats never made it into battle in WWII.  So far AH has only had airplanes which fought in the war.  I don't know if HTC will cross the line into a post-war simulation.  It's a neat plane though.  Performance is pretty similar to the La-7.  And some of them had 4 Hispano cannons.  

[Enduro]

That's true, funkedup...the Bearcat didn't actually fly during the war.  I had forgotten about that.  Well, perhaps the fact that they designed the plane for use during WW2 might be good enough for Hitech?    

Enduro

[Mathman]

What I find funny about the whole F8F thing is that it is not the world beater that people seem to think it is.  Max Speed is 424mph.  The only aspect of its performance that could be considered really "uber" is the climb.  I have read that it is around 4500 fpm (though I don't know the altitude this is at) and even seen some books that said its max climb was 4800 fpm.  These numbers are good, but I think (not sure, that is why I used the word "think") there are other planes that can exceed them that are either in the game or going to be added before it is (if ever).  Also, the most numerous version of the F8F was the F8F-1.  It had 4 50s.  Though its performance was average compared to other current fighters developed at about the same time, it was spectacular for a carrier fighter, and I think that is where people get the impression that it is such an "uber" plane.

Personally, I would love to see the Bearcat in here.  I just don't think it will be added anytime soon (nor should it be until we have the rest of the war covered).

-math

Just wanted to add that if we ever did get the Bearcat here, I would want the 4 50 version and not the hispano armed version.

[ 08-24-2001: Message edited by: Mathman ]

[pugg666]

Math, i can't quote the exact numbers, but the bearcat was still setting time to altitude records even when jets where becoming the standard.
i think that might be it's main claim to uberness.
i don't think it lost much of it's ROC even at altitude...4800 or so on the deck

[F4UDOA]

Actually Mathman I have some performance numbers for the Bearcat that are downright scary.

Yes it's max speed at Alt. was about 424MPH. and 380MPH at sea level, however sea level climb was rated at 5,800+FPM and stalling speed in landing condition was 71MPH. I the same condition the F6F stalled at 76MPH. Meaning the Bearcat had better turning capabilty than the Hellcat (roughly the Spit9) and a climb/acceleration 2K a minute faster that the G10 or La7. Combined with 190 type roll performance and it would be very hard to beat with the exception of the 4 50cals before the 20Mills were loaded. The closest other A/C in performance would be the Spit XIV which would be hard pressed to maneuver with the Bearcat.

[funkedup]

If it was doing 5800 fpm it either had more than 2300 hp or weighed less than the normal 10,200 lb takeoff weight or it was a zoom climb.  The numbers just don't add up for a sustained climb at that rate with the nominal power and weight.  4500 fpm is more like it.

[ 08-24-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[Mathman]

The only thing I have found describing the performance of the F8F that correspond to the numbers that you give relate to the F8F-2.  Nothing I have found on the -1, which would be the one (if one was ever introduced) that would be here, indicates the type of climb you are describing.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a great performer.  Hell, I may be wrong (probably am).  However, everything I have seen states that it is not as great as some make it out to be.  Like I said above, I would love to have it here, but I also think there are other, more significant planes that should and need to be added first.

[F4UDOA]

Funked,

Where did you get a loaded weight of 10,000lbs? I have a gross weight of 8,800LBS. I have the full test chart with speed, rated HP and climb on my webpage. I think I sent you a copy a while ago.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Mathman:
What I find funny about the whole F8F thing is that it is not the world beater that people seem to think it is.

Have you read any of Corky Meyer's stuff on the F8F? He was the senior test pilot on the F8F program and states that the "official" performance numbers for the type are nothing less than "ridiculous". He states that the F8F was capable of "450 mph".

Currently, the world speed record for a piston-engined aircraft is held by Lyle Shelton's F8F-2 Bearcat, aptly named Rare Bear. It's official record speed is 528.3 mph. Prior to this, the offically recogized
speed record was 499.018 mph. To break the record, it was required to do so as an average speed over a 4 leg course. On one of the legs, Rare Bear attained 540.1 mph, which is generally considered the fastest speed ever attained by a piston-engined aircraft in level flight, not assisted by
gravity.

In addition, Rare Bear broke a long standing time-to-climb record by getting from a dead stop to 3,000 meters in just 91.9 seconds.

My regards,

Widewing

[funkedup]

F4U doh I forgot about that info you had!  I think you are right, it's on my HD at home.
 8800 lbs makes more sense.  Definitely in the realm of possibility, especially if it had a nice prop and a conservative hp rating.

[whels]

Originally posted by Enduro Rider:
That's true, funkedup...the Bearcat didn't actually fly during the war.  I had forgotten about that.  Well, perhaps the fact that they designed the plane for use during WW2 might be good enough for Hitech?    

Enduro

F8F was deployed and flying before  the end of  WW2. F8fs were on carriers otw to Japan
in readiness for the Japan invasion. so to say they didnt fly in WW2 is false. They didnt see combat vs enemy planes, yes, but they did fly during ww2 as operational AC on
combat Carriers.

whels

[GRUNHERZ]

Uhmmm Rare Bear is not in any way representative of the USN F8F Bearcat performance.

[Mathman]

Every piece of info I have says that the Bearcat had an empty weight of 7,323lbs and a max wieght of 12,740.  Also, the typical T/O weight I have seen listed was the 10,200lbs mentioned by funked.  If it was climbing at the rate mentioned, it sounds to me like it was a chopped down version with some stuff cut out.  For a loaded weight of 8,800lbs, you only have 1477lbs of fuel and pilot in that thing over the empty weight.

F4U, I would like to see your webpage info.  May show some stuff I haven't seen before.

[wells]

DOA's data is for the XF8f, not a production aircraft, with 160 gal of fuel and 1600 rnds of ammo.  It says the wing area was 284 sq ft?  Was that reduced on production aircraft to 244?