MA Gameplay Got You Down?

[trigger2]

NEWS FLASH: ....HO's actually occurred in WW2!!!! ....get over it

Although it is reported all over during WWII, it wasn't apart of the "how you engage" for anyone other than the AVG.
So honestly, I don't care if you HO, as long as you keep it accurate.
P-40
a6m
ki
b5n

Good luck. 

[The Fugitive]

NEWS FLASH: ....HO's actually occurred in WW2!!!! ....get over it


They are mentioned in account after account by WW2 aviators ...from all nations ...in all time periods

......stop whining about HO's  ....that horse is was beat to death 9 years ago ....maybe trying searching the topic???

you would be well advised to follow the advice of boxing referee's ....."Defend yourself at all times"

The "HO" topic is D.O.A.



Helm ...out

NEWS FLASH !  THIS ISN'T WW2 !!   

To me, and I hope to many others, this is a flight sim game. The idea is to fly in accurately model WW2 aircraft to engage in air combat with other players. A HO is not COMBAT, its a crap shoot. Anyone that HOs should be ridiculed until they stop, or quit the game. Anyone who condones, or encourages the HO lives by the HO themselves and should also be branded a skilless fool.

Of course I might be going a bit over board, but the "community" has it well in its power to to stop this foolishness and increase the quality of the fights. Years ago in a game far, far away (AWIII) after a kill was recorded the majority of the players would post a "kill macro" in the text buffers. These were short, individual comments. Most were very funny, and all were identifiable to the player that posted them. When AW was killed and the mass move to AH happened it was frowned on here to have a macro. It was considered "childish" by a more serious community. How often do you see a macro these days?

[NCLawman]

If you're a HO/Vultch "artist" read no further.

I'm hoping to turn part of the DA into an "honorable" furball area, until such time as
subscriber rooms(like old H2H),become available. An area where HOing and jumping in
on engaged parties is forbidden(unless said "squadie" says it's ok to gang him) .
An area where extended running is considered bad form.

The idea is to create a DA "squad" where members know they are going into engage
other "squadies" without the slightest fear of being hoed or ganged.

We simply stake out a portion of the DA and conduct our fights there. If outsiders want to
try to ruin our fun we have options.

Please forgive my misunderstanding, this is not meant to be a slam or a smartazz remark.....  When you say you want a furball area, but are only interested in one-on-one for the fights, I get a bit confused.

I think I get that you want to have a group of people flying in the area so that you can then mutually engage in one-on-one or 2-2 combat.  But isn't that what the DA already is?  It is my understanding that the DA is strictly for people who have pre-arranged fights with each other.  I thought it was already bad form to randomly engage a target in the DA (all though admittedly, I do not spend much time in the DA).  So, as it sounds, you are essentially trying to re-invent the wheel when all it really takes that one person to ask the random idiot who is not following the basic understanding, to NOT engage or find somewhere else to pick.

By calling it a "furball area" that generally constitutes a gaggle of planes in a quasi free-for-all.  In a furball, one is expected to engage targets in a target rich environment -- that is what a furball is.  But I do see your point in cutting vulches and worse --- the cheap shot HO (i.e. wait till the opponent is low and slow with or finishing another enemy, then diving in and HOing him/her down.  To me there is nothing worse than, and no excuse for, the plane with the advantage going for a HO).

If I have misunderstood your post, please forgive me.  I think you have a good idea, but I don't see how what you are asking is any different than the DA already is.  <salute>

[Reaper90]

another clueless noob  ....12 on 12 gun solutions are a fact of life ....get over it ....If you had any skills at all you would realise how to beat sombody going for a HO ....It is not hard at all  ....I'm sure it will take you to 2013 to figure it out .   

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this 'clueless noob' already knows how to avoid the HO, and does so about 90% of the time. Your sad attempt at an insult doesn't change the fact that 1)your weak rationalization for a pretty crappy form of gameplay "they did it in WWII" doesn't hold water, 2)it sucks that HOers will purposefully try to HO as a means to an easy kill, and run instead of turning to engage when it doesn't work, and 3)you're being a real pr!ck for coming into newz's thread and crapping on his idea. Thanks for setting us all straight oh exalted uber Helm. 

I'm with Fugative. Intentional HOers should be publicly ridiculed and shunned.

The only thing worse than a HOer is a veteran HOer that whines on 200 when he gets a face full of lead from somebody that shoots back, whom he just tried to HO. Happened just a couple days ago to me, with someone whom I understand is a very veteran Rook. We were merging head on, and I immediately put my finger on the trigger and zoomed my gunsite, just to see if he would squeeze. Sure enough, his guns lit up, I kicked the rudder and then kicked it back and fired back, and killed him. He IMMEDIATELY went on a rant on 200, calling me noob and BS and all sorts of crap. All cause his attempt at a HO got him killed.

Helm, if you love the HO, more power to ya, bud. It's your $15. If you don't want to read another "HO whine thread" where everyone agrees HOers are worthless piles of excrament, don't click on the thread, man. Just move along.

/thread hijack off

Newz, do it man. I don't frequent the DA since I prefer to wing with my squaddies, but your plan can only serve to help improve the environment even if it's justa tiny amount. Every bit helps. 

[slyguy]

To the OP, this is one fantastic idea.  This will be a great way to get the "fencing" crowd out of the war where all they seem to do is blow CV positions and get them killed, pork no bases, run no supplies, carry no troops, bomb no GVs, kill no town.  They take part in 1/10th of the game in the arean and act like they own it and everyone else is wasting their time.  Pathetic bunch.

Good riddance.  Score the DA while you're at it HTC and bring back H2H.  That will keep the score dweebs and the "fencers" out of the war as well.  They can "touche" and <S> until the cows come home.  Two birds with one stone.

[jododger]

To the OP, this is one fantastic idea.  This will be a great way to get the "fencing" crowd out of the war where all they seem to do is blow CV positions and get them killed, pork no bases, run no supplies, carry no troops, bomb no GVs, kill no town.  They take part in 1/10th of the game in the arean and act like they own it and everyone else is wasting their time.  Pathetic bunch.

Good riddance.  Score the DA while you're at it HTC and bring back H2H.  That will keep the score dweebs and the "fencers" out of the war as well.  They can "touche" and <S> until the cows come home.  Two birds with one stone.

I'm late to this post, but at some point don't people have to fight??

[SIK1]

I'm late to this post, but at some point don't people have to fight??

No, some just sneak around taking undefended bases and running away at the first sign of opposition. Others enjoy flying with 40 or 50 of their closest friends so they can fight over who stole who's kill.

[stodd]

Good idea Newz ill join. 

Also Helm's meltdown is funny.

[newz]

Please forgive my misunderstanding, this is not meant to be a slam or a smartazz remark..... 

Not at all. In fact your post shows that I haven't explained well enough. Perhaps if I had
called it a "controlled furball" it would have hit closer to the mark.
Let's say 6 guys have decided to try this experiment. The 2 opposing groups gain visual on each other.
Guys in the center engage, guys to the east engage, and guys to the west engage. For clarity let's say
they have chosen to fight from rook and knight bases. We'll call the "rook" players R1,R2, and R3, and the
"knit" players K1,K2, and K3. R1 shoots down K1 and K3 shoots down R3. R1 and K3 are now free to engage
one another. Meanwhile K1 and R3 are back ib to engage who ever happens to be free when they get there.
Hopes this helps a little.
The idea is to try and create a more dynamic feel to the fights where combatants
may be in different aircraft and at different e states rather than the standard 1v1 DA encounter.
<S>

To the OP, this is one fantastic idea.  This will be a great way to get the "fencing" crowd out of the war where all they seem to do is blow CV positions and get them killed, pork no bases, run no supplies, carry no troops, bomb no GVs, kill no town.  They take part in 1/10th of the game in the arean and act like they own it and everyone else is wasting their time.  Pathetic bunch.

Good riddance.  Score the DA while you're at it HTC and bring back H2H.  That will keep the score dweebs and the "fencers" out of the war as well.  They can "touche" and <S> until the cows come home.  Two birds with one stone.

Wow you must really despise guys like me who couldn't care less if the "war" is won LOL. You're right I don't carry ords, pork fields, kill towns ect. For the most part I'm only here to engage
in Air to Air combat. Yep, how pathetic of me  . While I'm all for HTC bringing back H2H for subscribers you can kindly keep score out of the DA. It only leads to timid flying, HOing, and
vultching.

Sounds like there is some interest in giving this experiment a try so I'll go ahead and write up a manifesto (may take couple of days to get the wording just right) and post in the squad area.
Stodd and lazydog keep an eye out for it, glad to hear you're interested!

[Shuffler]

To the OP, this is one fantastic idea.  This will be a great way to get the "fencing" crowd out of the war where all they seem to do is blow CV positions and get them killed, pork no bases, run no supplies, carry no troops, bomb no GVs, kill no town.  They take part in 1/10th of the game in the arean and act like they own it and everyone else is wasting their time.  Pathetic bunch.

Good riddance.  Score the DA while you're at it HTC and bring back H2H.  That will keep the score dweebs and the "fencers" out of the war as well.  They can "touche" and <S> until the cows come home.  Two birds with one stone.

This guy is a member of the 10% club or as we refer to them... "Dirt Farmers".

[Helm]

I do not advocate using HO's at all ....In actuality since I don't give HO's 97% of the time...... I  am not very good at giving them ......mostly because have so little practice doing them.  I don't think I fired on 12 on 12 gun solution the first 5 years i was here ...i guess because i bought into the "hype" over it

.....but now If I'm being engaged by 3 or more planes that are continuously HO'ing me I may eventually shoot back.....


I am frankly tired of the endless belly aching about HO's ...here's a few reasons why:

1) at least 30% of what many folks say is a HO is in fact a front 1/4 shot ...I have seen many many great pilots accused of a HO ...once I watched the film I would see that the pilot hit a nice front 1/4 shot .... yet he was accused ....lame

2)  I don't not find avoiding a HO and turning the situation to my advantages that difficult.  If the opposing pilot goes for a true HO ..and fully commits to the HO, they generally put them self at a disadvantage coming out of that merge.   So why is there so much complaining?

3)   I had to actually listen to a HO whine BEFORE I even joined ACES HIGH.  I played Air Warrior....EA bought gamestorm and Air Warrior had the stench of death on it.  I realised that I need to find a new game to go to, so I began looking around.  It turns out one of my Air Warrior squaddies had tried a brand new game called Aces High.  Quite excitedly I asked about it,  hoping to hear about improved flight models ...better graphics ....etc etc...here is what I got.... and I quote:   "...yeah it looks nice ...but all anyone does is HO you and kill you with rockets"   I had not even joined the game, and somebody was allready complaining to me about HO's!!
  If I had listened to that bozo I would not even be here! ....the real truth is I Rarely get HO'd and in 8+ years here I have NEVER been shot down by a rocket.

4)   Air Warrior had a limiter built in that did not allow you to fire in a 12 on 12 gun solution.....having played there for 5 years I can assure it was lame.  All anyone had to do was turn 12 on 12 and you were as safe as being in your mother's arms.... You would look the other plane right in the face and absolutely nothing could happen to you ...LAME ......people would fly right through you  having no fear what so ever ....continuous stalemating ...wow ...what fun that was!
  ....of course eventually the better pilot/plane would eventually get the advantage .....but you would have to endure this 12 on 12 no shooting crap for many  many many merges ....I went though this day after day ...i can assure you it was not that much fun .....If a pilot/plane of equal skill engages you you could have 30+ 12 on 12 merges ...eventually fuel got low and you disengaged ....wow ...what fun!! ...not really.
    For me I find 12 on 12 gun solutions in here much more exciting.  What goes through your mind at the time? ..."will he shoot"? ...."wont he shoot"? ...."should I shoot" ? ...."should I not shoot"? These are far more exciting and interesting choices then safely 12 on 12 each other with no threat what so ever.  Just the fact that a possible HO could happen forces you to be on your toes...and isn't that more fun/interesting? ...for me it is

5)   When ever I bring up HO's existing in real life combat situations I allways hear the Following: ...."Helm you don't have a real life to lose in here" ....that certainly is true,  but that same logic could be applied every situation in here ....you have a 200mile RTB ahead of you ...over open ocean ...with no hope of rescue ...are you really gonna firewall your throttles in real life? ...or are you going to baby that engine/engines and watch over them like nervous  Virgin on her first date? Your plane is on fire and you continue flying to get the kill? ...not in real life you aint.... yet in here it happens routinely.  In real life you are going to up at that camped spawn point? ....I think not.
  The fact is this many folks define this game in different ways. To some its a simulator to others it's a game.  Where some folks draw the line seems to upset many people.  I define this game as being the closest approximation simulation of Air To Air combat available.... based upon the limitations of computers...players abilities ...training ...free time etc etc.  I also define Air Combat as a 12 on 12 gun solution being just as real as a 12 on 6 solution ....you can't just make it disappear just because you find it unchivalrous.  If you truly feel this way ..then don't shoot ....i did it for years...and in 97% of the situations I find myself in today I still don't shoot.  Anyone who has encounters me in air can attest to this.
   If this is truly just a "Game" ...then why do we have to bother with landing? ...wouldn't it be more fun just to fly through a Super Mario brothers "power up" and get ammo ...fuel... repairs? ...this would give the furballers much more air time ....instead wasting time flying back to some base? ....for me I prefer the simulation aspect of landing.....maybe you would enjoy the "Game" part better? ...once again its how YOU define it.

6)  "All he/she can do is HO" ...I hear this one allot ....truthfully if this is my opponents  main and only skill ...I have little to fear from this person.  So whats the big deal??

7)  "Helm this isn't a War" ...or "This is not World War 2" ....I hear these allot ....once again it boils down to how you define what we do here.  We have naval forces engaging each other ...bombarding towns ...bases ...air fields....factory's ...lauching invasions.....we have planes killing each other ...bombing targets of opportunity ...strafing air Fields ....we have ground vehicles engaging each other ... blowing up towns...factory's ...airfields....and killing planes ... ...we have paratroopers capturing territory etc etc ....this sure sounds like a War to me? ...it sure ain't "Chutes and Ladders"!!
  "This isn't WW 2" .....well if it's not WW2?.. then HTC sure seems to think it is ...just look at the criteria for introducing planes Vehicles into the game? .....It's all based on WW2 .....of course this is not WW2 ...it is a simulation of WW2 based upon the limitations of Computers  .....player base ....training ....free time ...etc etc. ...but it is an attempt to simulate   WW2 based upon these real world limitations.  Once again how do you define Aces High?  If my definition is different then yours...so what.  

8 )  After careful examination I see no mention of the HO's in the games manual.....nor do I see any mention that they are bad form? ...or illegal .....the rule is the same for all ...so it is a level playing field for all. So whats the big deal?  If you define Aces high as a "Game" then whats the big deal if you die anyway?  ...planes are free
    

   In closing I say this:  The real issue is where YOU the player define this game? ...is it a simulation? ...is it game?  If Aces High is a simulation of Air to Air combat,  and the 12 on 12 gun solution exists in real combat,  then it has a proper place in here.  In no way do I advocate HO'ing people, but nor do I deride people who do.  It is just part of the equation.
  If you consider this a "game" then maybe HO's have no place here? ...but if it truly is a "game" then I want to shoot down your Donkey Kong with a Tie Fighter while sinking your battleship..and hopefully you will bail out on Park place where i have 2 Hotels!



Helm ...out

[Wreked]

.............. You're right I don't carry ords, pork fields, kill towns ect. For the most part I'm only here to engage
in Air to Air combat.

Well IMHO what would seem to fill the bill for this sort of arcade style play is an arena without anything in it other than a bit of terrain graphics - no acks - no bases - no cv's etc etc - not required and as stated of no interest to you - shouldn't be a problem and if it makes you all happy why not.

... AIR STARTS - say at 7-10k - about 10 miles apart ( 2 only) - no need for more sides is there really? why spend time having to take off and get up to any sort of altitude other than "fighting" altitude. No fuel - you fight till you are killed - no score.

you would only want fighters in it - no ordanance other than unlimited gun ammunition -no buffs - no troopers/supply craft - no GV's of course.

Just straight "line em up and lets charge" style of combat

If THIS is what is needed to quiet the "my way is best" insults and rudeness that seems to go on from both sides of the arcade vs historical styles of play then I'm all for it. This will make a place for each - those who play to "fight only"  and the rest who see value in it's a  "diversity of play".

...works for me - have at it eh!


***note - don't forget - sheep LIE!!

[CAP1]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this 'clueless noob' already knows how to avoid the HO, and does so about 90% of the time. Your sad attempt at an insult doesn't change the fact that 1)your weak rationalization for a pretty crappy form of gameplay "they did it in WWII" doesn't hold water, 2)it sucks that HOers will purposefully try to HO as a means to an easy kill, and run instead of turning to engage when it doesn't work, and 3)you're being a real pr!ck for coming into newz's thread and crapping on his idea. Thanks for setting us all straight oh exalted uber Helm. 

I'm with Fugative. Intentional HOers should be publicly ridiculed and shunned.

The only thing worse than a HOer is a veteran HOer that whines on 200 when he gets a face full of lead from somebody that shoots back, whom he just tried to HO. Happened just a couple days ago to me, with someone whom I understand is a very veteran Rook. We were merging head on, and I immediately put my finger on the trigger and zoomed my gunsite, just to see if he would squeeze. Sure enough, his guns lit up, I kicked the rudder and then kicked it back and fired back, and killed him. He IMMEDIATELY went on a rant on 200, calling me noob and BS and all sorts of crap. All cause his attempt at a HO got him killed.

Helm, if you love the HO, more power to ya, bud. It's your $15. If you don't want to read another "HO whine thread" where everyone agrees HOers are worthless piles of excrament, don't click on the thread, man. Just move along.

/thread hijack off

Newz, do it man. I don't frequent the DA since I prefer to wing with my squaddies, but your plan can only serve to help improve the environment even if it's justa tiny amount. Every bit helps. 

so then does that mean i should mention lofty, and pat1961 here? oo..and myself, as after they both tried to ho me at once(i think pat tagged me), then the spit ho'd me a second time, i did as i said i do, and ho'd back.
 

[CAP1]

To the OP, this is one fantastic idea.  This will be a great way to get the "fencing" crowd out of the war where all they seem to do is blow CV positions and get them killed, pork no bases,carrying ords makes my already heave p38 even heavier. run no supplies,can't run supplies in a p38. carry no troops,can't carry troops in a p38 either....besides, they drink all the booze. bomb no GVs,why would i want to ruin someone's fun in a good gv battle...besides...bombs make the p38 too heavy. kill no town.  They take part in 1/10th of the game in the arean and act like they own it and everyone else is wasting their time.  Pathetic bunch.no, we don't think everyone else is wasting their time. most of us are in there for fun. we don;'t worry about how others have their fun. although you seem to spend a lot of time worrying about that.

Good riddance.  Score the DA while you're at it HTC and bring back H2H.  That will keep the score dweebs and the "fencers" out of the war as well.  They can "touche" and <S> until the cows come home.  Two birds with one stone.

 

[CAP1]

I'm late to this post, but at some point don't people have to fight??

no
what they'll do, is to come at a base. any signs of resistance, they go to another one.