New perks to be implemented

[Tac]

Wotan, those in yer squad are almost all vets of AH. Sure, 4 perks aint much for you. I get an avg of 8-12 perks a mission in my 38.

Yet, 4 perks is like 8 perks for chog. Those who want to fly it can pay it without much problem.

[Wotan]

IMHO perks are not related to skill. but to eny value and plane types.

Look the only reason I agree with ammo is because theres only so many more late birds left and a whole group of mid and early birds that a lot of folks want to see.

Sure guys with skill can kill in anything and in general I hate the idea that some would be forced into flying something he doesn't want to.

We have seen a trend in here that a good heap of folks fly what they can kill in first. This wont change with adding perks. but the difference in performance wont be as great.

Its an easy thing from my point of view to agree with ammo because I have flown most of those planes with regularity (except the la7) and see how easy they are to kill even with my limited skills.

also with the growth of the planeset and more folks in the game we see a lot more variety in the  main.

but there are good planes ignored and if there are to be more early birds then what point is it in developing them if they are never used.

Scenarios are fun and all but doesn't it take as much time to develope a p47n as a spit mk1.

 

Fly what you like. Like what you fly. Don't worry about what the other guy flies. It's a game!  

thats sounds good but the reality is (as demonstrated by the chog at the extreme) no one whether they enjoy or are interested in flying an early warbird is going to do it regularly in an arena of late war speed demons.

My personal preference would be that perks are spread out through out the entire planeset. reset us all to zero make available a few unperked planes and go at it only to reset them at the end of the tour. This is unfair and I dont believe it could werk but none-the-less I like it.

Also I wish given the current state that perk points were reset evey so often (end of tour or when ever). I know guys that have over 5000 perks and have no use for umm but if they did they could fly perks till the guys come home.

Im 25 and 2 in a 262 but I've augered I think 8 of them that arent recorded in the kill stats and still have 2300 fighter perks.

RPS sucks arse.

[Raubvogel]

What's wrong with the perk system as it is? Leave it alone. Next thing you know you'll want to perk my 190A8 because it rolls too fast.

[jpeg]

Instead of asking to perk the planes you get shot down by learn to fly better.

Perk system is fine the way it is, leave it alone.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it"

[Wotan]

jpeg that a ignorrant assumption go check the stats for the guys suggesting an expansion of the perk system.

You would have been better not posting at all.

[Blue Mako]

ROTFL that anyone would want to perk the P51D.  It doesn't turn, it's slower than a Typh, La7 and D9 on the deck and most runstang drivers don't stay to fight with them, they just run away at the first sign of trouble.

Hands up who thinks that the P51D is unbalancing the MA?

I think the basis of Ammo's post is that he just wants to see less of the planes that give his ride trouble.  

[Urchin]

Yep, it looks like Blue Mako really hit the nail on the head there.  Are you psychic?  You should go to work for Miss Cleo.

Ammo vs. P51D.

Tour 22 (so far)-ammo has 39 kills and has been killed 8 times against the P-51D.

And I don't even know the story behind the 8 deaths, but I'd wager at least 6 of them were either a gangbang or a P-51 getting credit for finishing him off.

Tour 21-ammo has 40 kills and has been killed 12 times against the P-51D.

Thoseare just the last two, doesn't look like he flew very often the month before, he was 9 and 5.

Oh, and for the record, I AGREE with him, so...

Tour 22-Urchin has 25 kills and has been killed 4 times against the P-51D.

Tour 21-Urchin has 32 kills and has been killed 11 times against the P-51D.

Tour 20-Urchin has 32 kills and has been killed 9 times against the P-51D.

So, if we add our stats together...  for the past 3 months, ammo and I are 177 kills to 49 deaths.  About 3.5 to 1.  While that isn't heartstopping, I'd hardly say we are looking to get rid of planes that we have trouble killing.  

I hear Miss Cleo calling you, why dontcha see if she'll offer you a job?

EDIT:  Hum, I DO believe I have found a possible reason why Blue Mako would be against such a change.  Watch closely, Watson, while I uncover this scoundrels motivation.

Tour 22- bluemako has 204 kills and has been killed 50 times.

bluemako has 79 kills and has been killed 20 times in the P-51D.

<If the plane sucks so bad... how'd you do so well in it if I may ask?>

bluemako has 46 kills and has been killed 15 times in the Typhoon IB.

bluemako has 26 kills and has been killed 8 times in the La-7.

Blue Mako also has 6 kills between the F4U and the Tempest.  

So, now it is clear why Blue Mako would be an upset little virtual pilot if HTC took Ammo's suggestion.  All the planes that he knows how to fly would be perked!
 

By the way Blue Mako... it is OK to say "No, this is a bad idea.  I ONLY fly the La-7, P-51D, and the Tiffie, I wouldn't know what else to fly if those planes got perked".  We wouldn't hold you in any less esteem, honest.  Be straightforward, say what you mean, and mean what you say.  Honesty is almost always the best policy.

[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]

[J_A_B]

The P-51 and 190D-9 can dictate the fight?

Only sometimes.    I assure you, a Spitfire will DEFINATELY dictate the fight if it finds either of the above planes lower/slower.  All they can do is TRY to run.

By the logic of a plane's ability to "dictate" a fight, the Spit and N1K2 should both unquestionably be perked, because they dominate virtually any co alt/co E situation versus almost the entire AH planeset.  There are only a very few planes that do NOT go defensive when confronted with a spit or N1K2 of equal E state.  The only truly effective way to kill these planes is to either gang them or start with alt advantage (unless your an Uber AH ace).

Perhaps ALT is what needs to be perked, because in either case the higher plane is the one that dominates.

Although Ammo has a good record versus LA7's, P-51's and Doras, I think he remembers (and hates) the one that catches and kills him much more than he remembers the 3 or 4 he just wasted.  I certainly remember the Uber spit that kills me more than I remember the not-so-uber spit that I just shot down.  

I still fail to understand why ENY manipulation is not a perfectly good motivation to have people try "disadvantaged" planes on its own, without having to take away others' fun.  I also didn't know the perk system had mutated into a sort of half-baked RPS.

J_A_B

[Sachs]

Crank up some of these eny values on the lower end planes and you will see usage I guarantee it.

[Urchin]

I actually think that ENY manipulation is a very viable tactic, but it is one that HTC seems loathe to do.  The ENY values on every plane have stayed the same since I began playing in April (if I recall correctly anyway).

Besides, how often would the ENY value change?  What would determine the ENY value to begin with, and subsequently?  The planes usage?  The planes K/D?  The planes potential "ability"?  Hell, we don't even know NOW what HTC bases the ENY values on, so how are we to know what would be a viable alternative to the values now?  

However, that said... many of the people that would like to see the usage for certain planes decrease don't NEED any more perk points, so increasing the ENY value of their ride would be a fairly pointless endeavour.  Also, I think most people that fly the most popular planes don't really care about perk points either, they just want to hop in their normal ride and get kills.  They aren't trying to save up points to get into a perk plane (besides which, the only perk planes that have "ability" that even remotely approaches their perk cost are the Me-262 and the F4U-1c), so why will further inhibiting their perk point gathering decrease their usage of a particular plane?

But again, with that said, I agree with Karnak that there does seem to be a lot more variety to the MA than their was 6 months ago (with the C-Hog craze) and even 2 months ago (before they "nerfed" the N1K2).  So I'm honestly not sure that anything needs to be done at all.

[AKDejaVu]

It just don't see any of the planes on this list as being a major impact on gameplay in the MA.  Actually... I don't see any of the unperked aircraft as having the potential to be unballancing in the MA.

Seems to me there needs to be a better motive than "their strengths are different and that makes me think they're unfair".

The P-51 turns like crap.  Its ONLY strenght is its speed.   Hell... its main apeal is its looks.  Other than that, it ain't got much going for it.  Damn.. the dora doesn't even have looks.

BnZ guys are always going to BnZ no matter what you put them in.  They'll always have the speed advantage simply because of flying style.  It makes zero difference what you put them in.

Please remember that anything you perk is someone's favorite ride.   That means you need a tad bit of justification for perking it.  The MA is mostly TnB low alt people goofing around... they've picked their poison.  Its not unfair that others chose a different road.  Its something called diversity.

AKDejaVu

[Blue Mako]

LOL at Urchin.

I never said Ammo couldn't kill them, I said he didn't want to see all of those planes that are difficult to kill.

And yes, you are right, I do have a vested interest in keeping the Pony, La7 and Typh unperked.  I choose to fly these planes because

1) I am in a P51D squad.
2) I like flying fast planes.

I do okay in them but did you happen to note the last set of stats Deja put up?

For Tour 21:
P51D    %kills=8.81    K/D=1.012
Typh    %kills=3.64    K/D=1.231
La7     %kills=7.16    K/D=1.083

All of these aircraft had a K/D of around 1 and none of them were at the top of the % kills list, the Spit IX was (ok P51D was 2nd).

The pony is a difficult aircraft to fly well and keep a good K/D in.  I know this from experience.  I know that many who fly it don't chance furballing it so they run from a fight and this leads to frustration for many (hence runstang).  How is it so uber if it can only maintain a 1 K/D even if so many people flying it have much higher K/D's?  (Midnight my CO has 106/18 in the P51D atm, my stats are pretty ordinary compared to that)  That's why I DON'T think that the P51 is an unbalancing aircraft.

And THAT is what the perk system is for, to keep a particular aircraft from unbalancing the MA.  Not to get rid of a plane because it is fast or has cannons or can turn well etc.  Sure there are a lot of people who like the P51, that is because it is a great plane but uber?  Not hardly.

If you want to label a plane as unbalancing, it should be the Spit IX.  It had the most kills last tour.  Therefore it must be the most used plane (btw I certainly see more spits than I do P51s).

P.S. If I'm such a bad pilot do we have to perk every plane I have gotten kills in?  Lemme see, that would have to include the F4U-1, La5, B26, P51B, P38, Il2, Lanc, B17, Mossie, Seafire...  

P.P.S. Urchin, shame on you trying to lump my 4 kills in the F4U-1D with the 2 I got in the Tempest. LOL.

[Maverick]

Other than seeing Ammo state the planes HE wants to perk are fast and can dictate the fight. Does that mean we should just perk planes who can dicate the fight? From where I sit it sounds like the way it was in real life. Later planes DID dictate the fight as well as superior numbers from the allies and dwindling experianced pilots for the axis.

Now here we have a game that many call a sim, (not me btw). They like the "realism" factor and want planes modeled as close to "real" as possible. Please ignore for the time being that almost NO ONE flies them as they were flown in real life in this GAME. Now if we restrict the planes that Ammo listed there goes the "realism". There is no reason to even think this is anything but an arcade game. The only real solution in that caase is to make all planes fly the same way. In that manner everyone can fly what they want and have absolutely no advantage over anyone else. We'd all be flying a (insert you plane of choice here) and just looking at the skins as eye candy. Now that would be "fair" but highly inaccurate. IMO it would also alienate a significant portion of HTC's player base aka funding.

Ammo, the only way you are going to get what you want in the current game is to fly H2H and dictate what other players can fly. You can also develope your own game and dictate the rules there. If you are going to "dicate" the rides players can fly why should they stay here?

In my case I belong to a 51 squad. I also do not fly any significant amount of time by ANY stretch of the imagination. You want to dictate my ride be perked because YOU want it that way. You have just removed much of my squad from the game. Why should we play the game that makes even further restrictions on what we can fly?

Some say players should "get better" to earn those perks. Fine, if this game is a significant part of your life. It is to me, however just a game that I have to pay for. The value drops considerably if much of the planes are perked. I will not be able to spend enough time to "get good" as I am more concerned with real life considerations. Why should I and several others pay to play a game that restricts what you can fly? I fly for fun, the stats in this game have absolutely no meaning for me. I couldn't care less who is top game player here. The "score" has zero meaning outside of the game so why consider it important?

Toad said it best, fly what YOU want and IGNORE the other players choices. From your K/D ratio it seems you really don't have a problem with the planes you mentioned. Other than your personal prejudice there is no reason to restrict planes from players. I am not being sarcastic here just stating you have no factual rationale to back your perk request so it must be personal choice on your part, ergo prejudice. You don't like seeing them flown so you want to restrict others from using them.

Finally let me reiterate, I also am against the perk system. I don't like being told I can't fly what I want when I want after paying my monthly fee. It's not my choice but it's not my game or livelyhood either.

 

[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: Maverick ]

[Blue Mako]

Ditto to most of what Mav said.  He's better at explaining it than I was.  

[Karnak]

Urchin,

Pyro was on the last night and said that ENY values would be adjusted at the start of the next tour.