Author Topic: Government-run health care  (Read 1566 times)

Offline rogwar

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Government-run health care
« on: August 08, 2009, 01:16:02 PM »
PLEASE DO NOT POST ANYTHING ABOUT POLITICS, PARTIES, OR ELECTED OFFICIALS.

This is a serious crossroads the USA is going through right now. It would be interesting to hear from people in the countries where they have government-run health care.

What are your experiences?


Thank you for any input. Please do not bash anybody's response to the question.

Offline Dago

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2009, 01:30:24 PM »
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Offline rogwar

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2009, 01:36:33 PM »
All I'm asking for are people's experiences with government-run health care in countries where they have such. There are a lot of people on here from around the world. It would be great to have info on what they have experienced under such a system.

Tell us about your experiences with doctors, hospitals, and the health care system.

Thanks very much for your contribution.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 01:40:44 PM by rogwar »

Offline Kazaa

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« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 03:25:24 PM by Kazaa »



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Offline Maverick

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 01:36:49 PM »
Dude, this is nothing BUT politics. I strongly suggest you take it down if you have time before skuzzy nukes it and you.

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Offline Kermit de frog

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 01:40:48 PM »
This is a medical topic.
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Offline rogwar

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 01:42:42 PM »
This is a medical topic.

Absolutely.

"Tell us about your experiences with doctors, hospitals, and the health care system."

Offline moot

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 01:50:27 PM »
It's not politics, it's healthcare and economics.

The only reason, IMO, that France is an acceptable govt run healthcare, is the quality of doctors. 
http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/04/14/health-care-around-the-world-france/
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 01:53:10 PM by moot »
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Offline eagl

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2009, 02:01:00 PM »
My wife is a doc and she worked in the UK for about a year.  In her experience, the docs work their required number of hours for the national health care system, and then spend another few hours each day working for private practice where they do procedures for people who despise the NHS or who are under-serviced, meaning that the govt has decided that their health problems are low priority so they either have to wait months/years for a procedure, or can't get it done at all.

As for the docs themselves, they feel that they're underpaid and many of them immigrate to the US where their salaries more than double due to supply/demand for their services.

Regarding quality of care, if you discard reports of excessive wait times and flat out refusal to provide treatment based on tables and charts that show average cost/benefit ratios for various problems and treatments, the care is probably reasonable.  One example my wife ran into stands out though...  Apparently women over age 60 there can't get breast cancer screening because, on average, if a 60 year old women has un-diagnosed breast cancer that metasticizes (ie. spreads to the whole body) followed by unsuccessful aggressive treatment, the patient will die a horribly painful death around the time they reach the average female lifespan anyhow.  They match the cost of continued screening for women over 60, compared it to the cost of aggressive cancer treatment for those who get cancer over 60, and factored in fact that some women will die horrible deaths, and decided that it was cheaper to just not provide screening past age 60.

That's one example of the inevitable set of decisions that MUST be made under a "free" public health care system. Demand for a "free" good or service is infinite, so limits on services must be made.  My problem with the way it gets done is that instead of the docs who go through a decade of training making the decisions, it's accountants and politicians making the decisions based on actuarial tables and re-election concerns.

Me, I'd rather let my doc make the choice.  For "basic" health care like broken bones and flu shots, I'm 100% in favor for a system that makes that stuff available to everyone for an extremely low price.  The problem is where to draw the line, and at what point people have to pay for their own care.  Most people seem to want the line drawn really high, with the govt providing some very expensive treatments for "free".  I would rather see the line drawn as low as possible with fixed costs to the hospitals and govt oversight to keep costs under control, then let supply/demand with govt regulation take care of the rest.  Regulations?  What regulations?  Things like monitoring relationships between suppliers and doctors that lead some doctors or hospitals to do things like prescribe half-dose pills that must be taken 2 at a time, instead of full-dose pills that can be taken one at a time.  And reining in the out-of-control legal expenses that ALL doctors face.  I'm sorry, but my foot isn't worth 5 million dollars.  No way, no how.  If a hospital cut off the wrong foot, I'd expect compensation for lost future wages and free medical treatment for life to compensate, but a huge cash settlement is just retarded even though I'm in a career field that pretty much requires me to have 2 feet.  So there must be regulation of hospital expenses and control of the insanely hostile legal environment in which hospitals and doctors operate.


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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2009, 02:49:16 PM »
I feel this is a non-political question. All the OP would like to know is.. "how is healthcare for those in countries with a social healthcare system".

Good question... hopefully folks can answer without going off the topic. I'd be interested to know and thank anyone who posted their EXPERIENCES good or bad.




Thanks eagl good read.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 02:53:43 PM by Shuffler »
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Offline Nilsen

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2009, 03:00:18 PM »
PLEASE DO NOT POST ANYTHING ABOUT POLITICS, PARTIES, OR ELECTED OFFICIALS.

This is a serious crossroads the USA is going through right now. It would be interesting to hear from people in the countries where they have government-run health care.

What are your experiences?


Thank you for any input. Please do not bash anybody's response to the question.

It works great here, but then we have the tax level and experience to deal with it. Not sure how it would work other places though.

Offline Anodizer

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2009, 03:58:06 PM »
One aspect people aren't looking at is the fact that most other countries who have a universal or socialized health care system have significantly smaller populations with a base of people that pay a lot more taxes than we do here in the states..  Honestly, our tax payer base is smaller(per capita) than most other countries..  We literally pay people to stay home and have more kids and those families that do that really don't pay taxes at all (except sales tax where applicable).. 
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Offline vonKrimm

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2009, 04:25:00 PM »
Easy to fund a NHC in the US; have a national 4% gross receipts tax (we he have a Federal tax on gasoline) on all doctors (psychiatrists, chiros, dentists, etc.), 3% on all RNs & Psychologists, 2% on LPNs & LCSWs, 1% on Physical/Occupational/Speech Therapists with a private practice.  If any of them takes a penny of Federal monies to go to school, they would owe 4 years part-time healthcare service to the Veteran's Administration; if they don't want to do it then they can payoff the amount they took plus an additional 1% tax on their gross receipts.

Why the VA you ask.  the number of vets requiring health care is decreasing as they pass on (WWII/Korea/Vietnam account for the vast majority of those under VA treatment) and facilities once full  now have many empty floors.  there is a VA hospital in VA that once had six floors full of patients that now only has two floors of patients.  The VA system is already in place and would be easier (legally & financially) to reconfigure than to start an entirely new organization.

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Offline SirFrancis

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2009, 04:28:48 PM »
Germany has one of the highest population density within the European Union. In December 2005 the number of doctors was 373 per 100,000 inhabitants. Healthcare is funded by a statutory contribution system that ensures free healthcare for all via sickness funds. Insurance payments are based on a percentage of income, divided between employee and employer. About 14.5% of your income before tax goes into healthcare.  Healthcare insurance in Germany is divided between statutory and private schemes.

The statutory health insurance occupies a central position in the Healthcare system in the Germany. About 90 % of the population are covered by the statutory health insurance which is compulsory for all who earn less than 4.050,00 € (in 2009) before tax. Private healthcare schemes can either provide to complete health service for those who opt out for the statutory scheme or top-up cover for those who remain within it.

In Germany, the provision of healthcare can be broadly separated into ambulatory and in patient sectors. Outpatient services supplied to the public are largely the responsibility of independent doctors practicing on a freelance basis under contract to the statutory health insurance. Doctors caring for patients who have sickfunds must be registered by law by the regional association of Statutory Health Insurance Physicians .

Hospitals in Germany are grouped into three main types:

    * Public hospitals run by the local authorities, the towns and the states
    * Voluntary non-profit making hospitals run by the churches or non-profit making organizations such as the German Red Cross
    * Private Hospitals run as free commercial enterprises

Is it good or bad? Good thing is, that everyone is insured. So nobody is without "free" health care. But public healthcare only covers minimal treatment. So only that will be payed, what is necessary to make you able to work again. Everything else you want, so not basic medicine, must be covered by extra private insurance. If you are earning more then 4.050 € a month or your husband or wife has this income, you can leave the statutory health insurance. Then you can decide what kind of treatment you want. I pay for my health insurance (not statutory) about 210,- € a month, with a deductible of 1000,- € per year.

(sorry if something is hard to understand, but my English is not that good, that I know all the right terms)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 04:40:24 PM by SirFrancis »
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Offline Denholm

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Re: Government-run health care
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2009, 04:34:50 PM »
Thanks for the post, SirFrancis. Was simple enough for me to understand.
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