Government-run health care

[rogwar]

Thanks for the post, SirFrancis. Was simple enough for me to understand.

Roger that SirFrancis! Thank you very much for the post. Great English!


In this thread I am wanting to hear from people outside of the USA that live in a country with socialized or government run health care. Please also feel free to respond if you are a US citizen like eagl and have first-hand experience with socialized medicine.

Thank you very much in advance for contributing.  We want to hear the good and bad.

[Masherbrum]

There is nothing wrong with "National Basic Free Healthcare" augmented by supplemental Insurance for more "Advanced" needs.   

[Vulcan]

In NZ we have good public health care, sure it has it's issues. One people always raise is that it is always overloaded, which is somewhat true but I think here people do not stop to think about seeing doctor. I've noticed on some US reality TV (cops style shows) that some people hesitate to go to hospital after an injury - now this is a tv observation so it could be way wrong - but nobody thinks twice here.

I'd also note I get free private healthcare through my work, and I've yet to use it.

[Tac]

As long as healthcare is run by those seeking profits (as it is in the US) it is not healthcare but  business.

I did see the movie SICKO . Although I dislike Moore's rabble-rousing-for-profit movies he does hit on a few valid points: The fact that the US health system is integrated into profits and market shares of insurance and drug companies and the how these companies have so much lobbying power that they have dug the avg. american citizen into a hole where they must spend most of their income on health related costs (medications/insurance) and where they must 'take it in the arse' in their jobs because said jobs are the only cost effective way of securing the health insurance (regardless of how ineffective that insurance is as most claims are denied).

I can only compare the US system to that of my native country of Colombia. There the health care system is half-private and half-state run. In short, the laws require all private health care institutions and insurers to provide the services required. It is not a perfect system but to give you an idea... my mother had been perfectly healthy until 8 years ago. She has been living in the US for 10+ years and is a US citizen.

Her health problem required her to have MRI / x-ray and a whole suite of tests to determine her treatment not to mention the surgery and the medicines for her recovery.

US insurance? The one that we had been paying for years and practically never used.. the one that should by all legality have covered the bulk of the costs of these tests and treatments not to mention the surgery? DENIED. Reason: they did not think there was a reason to run those tests nor did they agree that the surgery was needed. If we wanted to do all that it would have to come from our own pocket. We're talking 30k+ dollars here.

Time was very critical and even the doctor advised us that the insurance companies would just give us the run-around and never pay anything.

The next morning my mother was on a plane to Colombia where she had all those tests done & covered by her insurance in Colombia... surgery was performed and recovery was quick.

Now, you tell me folks that cancer is not something you fuk around with yet these stunninghunks in the insurance company wanted my mother to just sit there until it was too late. The surgery was the REMOVAL of it, the tests needed were to LOCATE the cancer and determine its type.

It's just shameful that a US citizen has to go to a foreign country.. a 3rd world country no less... to receive life saving treatment... and even more shameful that the insurance covered almost every cost where the US insurance denied every single cent.

So, like I said, as long as its BUSINESS the US will not have health care. All it will have are the rich fuks sipping wine on top of the pile of corpses they denied the services to. All for money.
 

[71313]

Ex cellant post :oak

[gunnss]

Twenty years ago I was stationed in Germany, most of my dependent heelth care was "on the Economy" meaning the we were sent to the local German doctors for thier needs. We found the local Doctors and care to be unfailingly professional adaquete.
Regards,
Kevin

Germany has one of the highest population density within the European Union. In December 2005 the number of doctors was 373 per 100,000 inhabitants. Healthcare is funded by a statutory contribution system that ensures free healthcare for all via sickness funds. Insurance payments are based on a percentage of income, divided between employee and employer. About 14.5% of your income before tax goes into healthcare.  Healthcare insurance in Germany is divided between statutory and private schemes.

The statutory health insurance occupies a central position in the Healthcare system in the Germany. About 90 % of the population are covered by the statutory health insurance which is compulsory for all who earn less than 4.050,00 € (in 2009) before tax. Private healthcare schemes can either provide to complete health service for those who opt out for the statutory scheme or top-up cover for those who remain within it.

In Germany, the provision of healthcare can be broadly separated into ambulatory and in patient sectors. Outpatient services supplied to the public are largely the responsibility of independent doctors practicing on a freelance basis under contract to the statutory health insurance. Doctors caring for patients who have sickfunds must be registered by law by the regional association of Statutory Health Insurance Physicians .

Hospitals in Germany are grouped into three main types:

    * Public hospitals run by the local authorities, the towns and the states
    * Voluntary non-profit making hospitals run by the churches or non-profit making organizations such as the German Red Cross
    * Private Hospitals run as free commercial enterprises

Is it good or bad? Good thing is, that everyone is insured. So nobody is without "free" health care. But public healthcare only covers minimal treatment. So only that will be payed, what is necessary to make you able to work again. Everything else you want, so not basic medicine, must be covered by extra private insurance. If you are earning more then 4.050 € a month or your husband or wife has this income, you can leave the statutory health insurance. Then you can decide what kind of treatment you want. I pay for my health insurance (not statutory) about 210,- € a month, with a deductible of 1000,- € per year.

(sorry if something is hard to understand, but my English is not that good, that I know all the right terms)

[ghi]

I live in Canada for 10 years, immigrating from Romania, both with government healthcare.
2 years ago,my mother was sick, i went to Romania found an good doctor paid him 3000$,+the nurses, blood,drugs, she was operated without waiting, but was cancer , she passed away 3 months later. Thx God here in Canada i didn't need serious care, but my brother has some problems was booked by his family doctor in March to see a specialist , his appointment was set for this week!!! The difference between this 2 countries : in Romania if you have some $$, you'll get assistance in time, in Canada you won't, maybe if you can afford to spend big $$.  Last year i had an painfull abscess, big like an apple , i went to my family doctor to fix me, he sent me to Emergency Hospital here in Windsor,Ontario ,they kept me in waiting room 7-8 hours, after a nurse seen me, i've been told this is not emergency. Believe me or not, i came home , read on internet about it , i did cut it open myself and  got some antibiotics, 2nd day i was like new.

[DaveJ]

  Last year i had an painfull abscess, big like an apple , i went to my family doctor to fix me, he sent me to Emergency Hospital here in Windsor,Ontario ,they kept me in waiting room 7-8 hours, after a nurse seen me, i've been told this is not emergency. Believe me or not, i came home , read on internet about it , i did cut it open myself and  got some antibiotics, 2nd day i was like new.

I am struggling to keep politics out of this, but this is what our leaders will be making us deal with-  complete rationing of care, long waiting lines, no availability of doctors, etc.

Great post, G!

[Motherland]

Last year i had an painfull abscess, big like an apple , i went to my family doctor to fix me, he sent me to Emergency Hospital here in Windsor,Ontario ,they kept me in waiting room 7-8 hours, after a nurse seen me, i've been told this is not emergency. Believe me or not, i came home , read on internet about it , i did cut it open myself and  got some antibiotics, 2nd day i was like new.

Same thing happens in the US...
I remember when my sister broke her arm was 4-5 we sat in the lobby for hours (hard to remember the exact amount of time because I was young and everything seems so long, it seemed like 12 hours or something lol... but I think it was 2-3 hours?) and then even longer before she got any actual care.

This was a little girl with a broken arm mind you....

[rogwar]

Thanks for all the feedback so far from people with personal experiences to share regarding government-run health care in other countries.

[MORAY37]

Health, in a first world country should be a right, not a privilege.  It should not also be based on shareholders and profit margins.

The United States has the most expensive health care system in the world, bar none.  Yet that system ranks 37th in overall care, and we rank 50th in lifespan (Dead last in industrialized nations)..  If you see nothing wrong with this, you need a better prescription.  We're getting ripped off, period. 

There should be options for those who have the means for "better" insurance.  But, there should also be something that can cover those who need it, at the base level.  Remember, it is a public OPTION being discussed. 

[Masherbrum]

Health, in a first world country should be a right, not a privilege.  It should not also be based on shareholders and profit margins.

The United States has the most expensive health care system in the world, bar none.  Yet that system ranks 37th in overall care, and we rank 50th in lifespan (Dead last in industrialized nations)..  If you see nothing wrong with this, you need a better prescription.  We're getting ripped off, period. 

There should be options for those who have the means for "better" insurance.  But, there should also be something that can cover those who need it, at the base level.  Remember, it is a public OPTION being discussed. 

What?   I agree with Moray for a change?       

[Stalwart]

I don't want to start my own thread, or ruin this one, but i want to add my 2c:

In principle do not believe government programs are the answers to problems, rather they are often the source.  I believe our healthcare system has flaws, but I believe a free market solution is far preferable to a government solution.  It should not be the role of federal government to provide healthcare.  I have worked in the industry and can see from experience with Medicare and Medicaid that government solutions are not more efficient or effective, but quite the opposite.

I don't believe we have a right to healthcare any more than we have a right to HDTV, sports cars, or golf club memberships.  What we have a right to is our exercise of our consumer power in a free market system... remember that one kids... you're not entitled to everything you want or think you should have, but you are entitled to the opportunity to acquire what you want in a free market.  Government "options" are disruptors to a   functioning free market.

[Vudak]

For now, I don't worry about possible "cost effectiveness" problems with a future NHC system.  As it stands, my health insurance is nearly worthless already.  I have to pay the first $5,000 each year.  I understand cancer and heart disease don't exactly have a minimum age, but as a 25 year-old white collar worker, the most likely way I'll rack up more than $5,000 any time soon would be in a car crash, and I'm already paying a hefty premium to make sure I'm beyond covered in that event.

At first glance it seems like NHC, even if limited to only the basics of basics, would do me a world of good.  But I have to weigh this against the question of who is going to pay for it?  I might for the moment be a pleb, but I rely on the patrician for my income.  If the rich don't have enough disposable income, I don't have a job.  Further, right now I can afford to save towards "something better."  If my taxes go up too much (or I lose too much work), will I be able to in the future?

I define "health" as more than just doctors and medicine.  I also think of living in a safe place, and having my kids one day grow up with a decent school system.  I just hope whatever course we take doesn't lessen the chance of those things happening, but I'm not optimistic.

[zack1234]

The health system in the UK is not free I pay for it.
It is worth every penny, I pay a pitence out of my wages for it.
Everyone complains about the health service here because they are idiots.
The system works,US private health companies have been bullying succesive governments for years to privatise it, they are currently using US private companies to dismantle the social security system.

A senior member of parliament has already resigned over having shares with a US company that is trying to forcing Id cards on us.

Health care for all in US is not going to happen,rich corporate interests are not going to lose money.
There are a lot of good things about US but not your health systems.
It's not right making money out of suffering.