Author Topic: Buy a house now or wait a bit  (Read 816 times)

Offline 68Wooley

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Buy a house now or wait a bit
« on: August 12, 2009, 08:05:28 PM »
I'm in the enviable position of being in a household with two relatively secure incomes and next to no debt.

We live in Southern California and house prices have now dropped to the point where we can actually look to buy in areas we'd consider living. As little as six months ago, that would have been fantasy. We have enough savings to put 20% down without completely wiping ourselves out.

We've been renting since moving to the States 4 years ago and whilst initially not owning any property worried me, it now looks like a very shrewd move. However time is getting on and I don't want to be paying off a mortgage forever so we're starting to get itchy about buying a place. The question is - is now a good time to buy, or should we hold out a little bit longer?

Anyone have any views / insights into the property market (particularly SoCal) or are we so far in to untested waters no-one knows what's going to happen?

Cheers,
Wooley.


Offline trigger2

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2009, 08:11:10 PM »
I would bet on the untested waters, but from what I'm starting to see in the stock market, things are starting to fluctuate. For the most part, it's been a slow, snails climb up, but still up. I would say if you feel secure enough with your income, and you can put that 20% down without taking too much of a blow, I don't see why not. Intrest rates are low, prices are down, to be honest, I believe that (at least around here), now's the time to buy.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2009, 09:25:29 PM »
In Ohio, things are starting to turn around and the housing prices are starting to go up.  If you can, then right now would be great time to buy.  Just keep in mind that in 5 years, when the economy is back in full swing, the taxes will be a lot higher than they are right now, so leave a bit of a cushion.
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Offline Stalwart

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2009, 10:16:14 PM »
I'm working on one project that's $170K on the tax rolls, but we prolly couldn't sell for more than $150K when the remodel is done.  This is a nice house in a great neighborhood too.  So, it's a buyer's market.

Check Austin, Texas if you're looking for investment property.  We have many nice houses that have been on the market since '08.  The best property here is the in the "hill country" west of downtown, but there's opportunities all over.

They say here in Austin it's the closest you can get to a California lifestyle in Texas.

Offline oakranger

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 11:05:43 PM »
if you are getting a loan, and lets say that you qualified for a $150,000.00 home but the banker tells you qualified for a $225,000.00 home.  i would strongly take the $150,000.00.  the reason for this is because a lot of loan officers did this, and they are the reason for the meltdown in the financial area this past fall-winter.  they got to greedy, gave more money to people then what they really should have gotten and now many people lives are screwed up as well as the housing market crashed. Play it smart and save your self money for a rainy day. 
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Offline 68Wooley

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 11:46:10 PM »
if you are getting a loan, and lets say that you qualified for a $150,000.00 home but the banker tells you qualified for a $225,000.00 home.  i would strongly take the $150,000.00.  the reason for this is because a lot of loan officers did this, and they are the reason for the meltdown in the financial area this past fall-winter.  they got to greedy, gave more money to people then what they really should have gotten and now many people lives are screwed up as well as the housing market crashed. Play it smart and save your self money for a rainy day. 

Rodger that - our own calculations on what we can afford are far more conservative than the bank's. Even in the current credit market, what they'd be prepared to lend us is crazy.

Offline Tac

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2009, 12:51:20 AM »
Also consider that if you're renting you're giving your money away. Literally.

Most people that rent pay about the same as a house mortage but never own the house nor build equity, etc. The money, and all the hours you put on your job to pay it with, are lost.

If you can buy a house BUY it. My only suggestion is to avoid the pitfall of 'oh this is my dreamhouse and I can pay it with my & my wife's income' because if crap hits the fan and one or both of you get laid off or have a medical emergency you'll be stuck with a mortage you suddenly cant afford and you'll lose the home.

Start with a home you like but is not very expensive and start from there. The worst thing you can do at any time is buy a 200k home and end up spending most of your income to pay for the home....when you could have purchased an 80k home, paid it off in a third of the time to secure the investment and then spent a decade or so with a secured home, debt free and able to enjoy that disposable income on your kids, vacations, etc. Dont slave your family to a mortage.

Offline Lord ReDhAwK

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2009, 01:05:01 AM »
Wooley this is absolutely a perfect time for you guys to buy.  Great Rate and reduced home prices make this your market.  Good luck.

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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2009, 01:24:26 AM »
Wooley this is absolutely a perfect time for you guys to buy.  Great Rate and reduced home prices make this your market.  Good luck.

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Offline 68Wooley

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 01:37:28 AM »
Wooley this is absolutely a perfect time for you guys to buy.  Great Rate and reduced home prices make this your market.  Good luck.

ReDhAwK

Don't disagree - only question is will it be even better in 6 months? I'm hearing rumours of a second wave of foreclosures as many Alt-A (not-quite sub-prime, but not prime either) mortgages reset later this year and through 2011.

Ultimately, this is about a roof over our heads rather than an investment so I'm not going to lose too much sleep over short to medium term losses, but I'm wondering if I hold off and we see further drops if we might end up with not just somwhere that is nice-for-now, but a place we could be in for life.

Thanks for all the advice.

Offline oakranger

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2009, 02:07:32 AM »
Another thing that you can do.  If you find a flexable owner who has a few homes, you can talk to them and buy the house w/o getting a loan.  all you have to do is pay them the monthly payments, you have the title of the house and they will have the deed of the house until it is pay off.  Keep in mind, this is kind of like renting, but you are not really renting.  A set up like this works well if you have bad credit, no money to paydown and bank is never in the process. 
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Offline trigger2

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2009, 03:32:09 AM »
Another thing that you can do.  If you find a flexable owner who has a few homes, you can talk to them and buy the house w/o getting a loan.  all you have to do is pay them the monthly payments, you have the title of the house and they will have the deed of the house until it is pay off.  Keep in mind, this is kind of like renting, but you are not really renting.  A set up like this works well if you have bad credit, no money to paydown and bank is never in the process. 

Are you talking about rent to own? Good idea for those who are renting, but in this economy I would go for the house, plus, you're not going to find very many people willing to rent-to-own.
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Offline mondego

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 03:49:34 AM »
Hi Wooley,

I co-own a mortgage bank and real estate firm in Irvine, California. While no one has a crystal ball, I'd like to make a couple dissenting arguments to purchasing right now.

The Federal Reserve set aside 1.25 trillion dollars several months ago to purchase mortgage backed securities in the open market. This was done in order to drive down interest rates and has been largely successful. So far $721 billion has been spent. At the current purchasing speeds these funds are projected to run out at the end of December. This creates a colossal uncertainty: what will happen to rates in December when the Fed stops buying mortgages?

The opinions vary wildly. Some analysts state the market has already priced in the Fed's exit from the mortgage backed securities purchase program. Others believe rates have a potential to skyrocket. If rates do skyrocket, you can rest assured that home prices will continue to fall as the purchasing power of potential buyers drops substantially.

Of course, there is always the potential that the Fed will add funds to the program (this already occurred once before, as it was originally funded with $500 billion). The Fed also engaged in buying 10 year treasuries in order to bring the yields down and help lower mortgage rates. As of today, the Fed announced they will not be adding funds to this program and that it will end in October. I believe a good indicator of what will happen with mortgage rates will be to watch the 10 year treasury yield at the end of October. If it jumps up, then that is likely what will happen to mortgage rates at the end of December/January.

It's a tough call, and like I said no one has a magic ball! I do know there is a HUGE shadow inventory of foreclosed properties that the banks are just sitting on (so as not to flood the market). Couple that with the moratorium that California placed on foreclosures, and it doesn't become much of a stretch to see a further decline in home values when the additional homes hit the market.

My personal opinion is to purchase once you've seen 2-3 consecutive quarters of home prices increasing. Why try to catch a falling sword? At worst you'll miss out on 2-5% appreciation. On the flip side, if you bought too early you could lose 10-30% of value. The potential flaw in this strategy is that if values don't drop much further but rates skyrocket, the total cost of ownership will be more expensive long term.

For example:

Suppose you can purchase a property for $500,000 right now with a $400,000 loan at 4.875%. The payment would be $2115.61. In 30 years, you would have paid a total of $761,619 to own the home. However, if you waited and values dropped 10% in 1 year you could buy the house for $450,000 and only need a $350,000 loan (with the same downpayment). But, the rate is now 6.5% with a $2212.23 payment resulting in a total cost of $796,402 to own in 30 years. In this scenario it would have made more sense to buy when values were higher!

I could probably go on indefinitely regarding all these scenarios and the host of variables that could be taken into consideration (mortgage interest tax deduction, etc). At the end of the day, if you have the income and downpayment to comfortably afford the property and plan on keeping it long term (10 years +), then it's a pretty close call and either decision you make couldn't be frowned upon.

Good luck to you!

Offline oakranger

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 11:40:42 AM »
Are you talking about rent to own? Good idea for those who are renting, but in this economy I would go for the house, plus, you're not going to find very many people willing to rent-to-own.

It is kind of like that, but you are not renting.
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Offline Reschke

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Re: Buy a house now or wait a bit
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2009, 11:42:41 AM »
I like the statements that mondego is making. I am looking at several different foreclosures here in Alabama...the one we just made an offer on today that we made an offer on a week ago (feel through because of an investor and his credit crashed after the offer and he couldn't put up the earnest money...big surprise there) at $180k for a 5 bedroom, 4 bath house on .70 acres corner lot. Today I offered the same financial institution $160k and want them to pay the closing costs. I have about 15% of the asking price ($201k) and I don't want to fix it up and move out...I want to stay there for several years. Anyway we will see where this goes because the others I am looking at here at are similar listing price and similar size 4+ bedrooms and all are around 200-225k listed but either in foreclosure or about to be in foreclosure.

Should be a good time because I do see the bottom here in my area. We will see though.
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