Author Topic: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers  (Read 10050 times)

Offline Fianna

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #165 on: August 20, 2009, 09:08:09 PM »
Well, at least you're showing how proficient JG54 is at reporting...


ack-ack

Underrated post.  :rofl


Offline CAP1

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #166 on: August 20, 2009, 09:12:01 PM »
I'm not trying to tap dance, I'm trying to reason. I'm reasoning to show that using a term to describe the whole is wrong. I haven't anywhere, anytime said or written anything about a separate issue that you don't like. I haven't on any occasion said or written anything about the alleged involvement of members/ex members in that issue you are referring too. I haven't on any occasion said or  written anything in anyway, that mentions being comfortable with anything. My responses have been aimed at what is being said about an individual (me) on a group basis. Two separate issues and there is no linkage, none whatsoever between the two. My argument is in trying to show this, but unfortunately I can't seem to get this message across. Once again, If I use the same logic used by you and others in SAPP or have some form of relationship with SAPP, then Ack Ack's comments are from everyone in that organization, and I object being referred to as "dung."
I can then only assume that SAPP think and refer to me as "dung"." I find that disappointing and unreasonable.



i don't recalll seeing anything aimed directly at you? except that you're associated with them. in fact, guppy told you at one point to call him when ya saw  him online?
ingame 1LTCAP
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S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #167 on: August 20, 2009, 09:13:51 PM »
I'm not trying to tap dance, I'm trying to reason. I'm reasoning to show that using a term to describe the whole is wrong. I haven't anywhere, anytime said or written anything about a separate issue that you don't like. I haven't on any occasion said or written anything about the alleged involvement of members/ex members in that issue you are referring too. I haven't on any occasion said or  written anything in anyway, that mentions being comfortable with anything. My responses have been aimed at what is being said about an individual (me) on a group basis. Two separate issues and there is no linkage, none whatsoever between the two. My argument is in trying to show this, but unfortunately I can't seem to get this message across. Once again, If I use the same logic used by you and others in SAPP or have some form of relationship with SAPP, then Ack Ack's comments are from everyone in that organization, and I object being referred to as "dung."
I can then only assume that SAPP think and refer to me as "dung"." I find that disappointing and unreasonable.



No one referred to you as dung. They may have referred to a group you associate with as dung. There is a difference, and it is a distinct difference.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Guppy35

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #168 on: August 20, 2009, 09:27:42 PM »
I'm not trying to tap dance, I'm trying to reason. I'm reasoning to show that using a term to describe the whole is wrong. I haven't anywhere, anytime said or written anything about a separate issue that you don't like. I haven't on any occasion said or written anything about the alleged involvement of members/ex members in that issue you are referring too. I haven't on any occasion said or  written anything in anyway, that mentions being comfortable with anything. My responses have been aimed at what is being said about an individual (me) on a group basis. Two separate issues and there is no linkage, none whatsoever between the two. My argument is in trying to show this, but unfortunately I can't seem to get this message across. Once again, If I use the same logic used by you and others in SAPP or have some form of relationship with SAPP, then Ack Ack's comments are from everyone in that organization, and I object being referred to as "dung."
I can then only assume that SAPP think and refer to me as "dung"." I find that disappointing and unreasonable.



And I note you did not answer again.  I started this thread to thank folks for a good night of air combat.  The JG54 guys with the SAPP logos in thier sigs then pop in, clearly looking for a reaction. 


This thread had nothing to do with them   So my question still remains.  Are you ok with guys from JG54 misrepresenting themselves that way?
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline iTunes

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #169 on: August 20, 2009, 09:31:12 PM »
No one referred to you as dung. They may have referred to a group you associate with as dung. There is a difference, and it is a distinct difference.
OK Let me try this for the last and final time.
Here's an example of what I'm trying to get over.Lets use a military scenario as it'll probably be easier to relate to.
Young Private, officer etc walks into a new base, Somebody shouts out: "Hey I see from your patch that your from the fighting AH division, that's the  bravest fighting unit in the world, let me buy you a beer as It's not often I get the  chance to buy a brave person a beer"

Do you see the error in the persons thinking? The person accepts the common belief  that because "AH division" is the bravest in the country and this private is from the "fighting AH division" and for the "AH" to perform bravely then the private must be brave. The  characteristic of being brave is attributed to the part  simply because it's membership of the whole This shows that the "somebody" would expect the same of any-and- therefore all-of the parts It's faulty because it's not  necessary for every soldier to have acted bravely in order to justify the unit's label of "Bravest"
Hope this helps.
Tunes.
The Class Acts.
JG54 Grunherz
iTunes- UK's finest killer of ack huggers and runners, mixing business with girls and thrills.
JG54/ Manchester United- Nobody likes us-we don't care... Goes by the name of Wayne rooney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-47c_8J4c

Offline captain1ma

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #170 on: August 20, 2009, 09:42:11 PM »
This is true. I dont mean this in any way about JG54 or anyone in particular but the analogy is true.


you know this from your 15 years of experience?

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #171 on: August 20, 2009, 09:46:15 PM »
OK Let me try this for the last and final time.
Here's an example of what I'm trying to get over.Lets use a military scenario as it'll probably be easier to relate to.
Young Private, officer etc walks into a new base, Somebody shouts out: "Hey I see from your patch that your from the fighting AH division, that's the  bravest fighting unit in the world, let me buy you a beer as It's not often I get the  chance to buy a brave person a beer"

Do you see the error in the persons thinking? The person accepts the common belief  that because "AH division" is the bravest in the country and this private is from the "fighting AH division" and for the "AH" to perform bravely then the private must be brave. The  characteristic of being brave is attributed to the part  simply because it's membership of the whole This shows that the "somebody" would expect the same of any-and- therefore all-of the parts It's faulty because it's not  necessary for every soldier to have acted bravely in order to justify the unit's label of "Bravest"
Hope this helps.
Tunes.


Answer the post above yours. The man who started SAPP has asked you repeatedly and politely for an answer about people you associate with and their actions. Do you see the error in your position? You demand an apology for a perceived affront to you, all the while ignoring and avoiding the issue of an insult made by your associates to incite a reaction. Your position is absurd and untenable. You expect to stand around on the corner with guys (pretty much wearing the exact same clothes, etc.) who are spitting on passers by, and not be called out by the people being spit on. It just doesn't work that way.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline iTunes

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #172 on: August 20, 2009, 09:51:33 PM »
Answer the post above yours. The man who started SAPP has asked you repeatedly and politely for an answer about people you associate with and their actions. Do you see the error in your position? You demand an apology for a perceived affront to you, all the while ignoring and avoiding the issue of an insult made by your associates to incite a reaction. Your position is absurd and untenable. You expect to stand around on the corner with guys (pretty much wearing the exact same clothes, etc.) who are spitting on passers by, and not be called out by the people being spit on. It just doesn't work that way.
I have already answered his question on page ten of this thread. I noticed that you never commented on my explanation RE: dung. Care to give me a clear and concise rebuttal if my logic is faulty? If it's faulty, could you be so kind as to point out the errors? If  it's not faulty then I can assume that you would agree that I'm correct?
Why did you use my post as a quote and then not even answer any of it? I'm curious that's all.
The Class Acts.
JG54 Grunherz
iTunes- UK's finest killer of ack huggers and runners, mixing business with girls and thrills.
JG54/ Manchester United- Nobody likes us-we don't care... Goes by the name of Wayne rooney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-47c_8J4c

Offline CAP1

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #173 on: August 20, 2009, 09:53:41 PM »
OK Let me try this for the last and final time.
Here's an example of what I'm trying to get over.Lets use a military scenario as it'll probably be easier to relate to.
Young Private, officer etc walks into a new base, Somebody shouts out: "Hey I see from your patch that your from the fighting AH division, that's the  bravest fighting unit in the world, let me buy you a beer as It's not often I get the  chance to buy a brave person a beer"

Do you see the error in the persons thinking? The person accepts the common belief  that because "AH division" is the bravest in the country and this private is from the "fighting AH division" and for the "AH" to perform bravely then the private must be brave. The  characteristic of being brave is attributed to the part  simply because it's membership of the whole This shows that the "somebody" would expect the same of any-and- therefore all-of the parts It's faulty because it's not  necessary for every soldier to have acted bravely in order to justify the unit's label of "Bravest"
Hope this helps.
Tunes.

dude.....i think we're all saying the same thing. we're all just seeing different sides of the same scenario.


what(i intrepret)guppy as asking.......is this.


he posted here trying to acknowledge fun fights. there were. over four hours of it.  
two members of your squad come in, and deface this thread......basically hijack it. not only that, but they place the sapp logo in their sig lines, trying to represent themselves as sapp members.

 by being associated with them through that squad.....it brings your character into judgement. again, this is not an attack on you.

 try this analogy. you and your family are in the siad yard, enjoying a cook-out......swimming, good food, etc. the neighborhood bully runs into your yard, knos\cks over the grills, and throws it into the pool, then egresses with great haste.
 he comes to my house, and i do nothing. i don't let you in to set him straight.....because i'm friends with him....now,........what would you think of me at that point?
ingame 1LTCAP
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S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline CAP1

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #174 on: August 20, 2009, 09:55:07 PM »
I have already answered his question on page ten of this thread. I noticed that you never commented on my explanation RE: dung. Care to give me a clear and concise rebuttal if my logic is faulty? If it's faulty, could you be so kind as to point out the errors? If  it's not faulty then I can assume that you would agree that I'm correct?
Why did you use my post as a quote and then not even answer any of it? I'm curious that's all.

akak was not trying(i think) to insult you. he was using an analogy....a corse analogy, but an anology nonetheless.



ingame 1LTCAP
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S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #175 on: August 20, 2009, 09:58:44 PM »
akak was not trying(i think) to insult you. he was using an analogy....a corse analogy, but an anology nonetheless.





If he knew what an analogy was, he would understand one when he sees it, since he doesn't, well, you can see the results.


ack-ack
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Offline iTunes

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #176 on: August 20, 2009, 10:02:08 PM »
 "by being associated with them through that squad.....it brings your character into judgement."
And that is faulty reasoning Cap, I  have just shown that in my earlier explanation. RE:"AH division" Please, If my logic if faulty, if ack ack's comments were not a fallacy of division (my explanation)  then I'd like to be shown that.
 :salute
The Class Acts.
JG54 Grunherz
iTunes- UK's finest killer of ack huggers and runners, mixing business with girls and thrills.
JG54/ Manchester United- Nobody likes us-we don't care... Goes by the name of Wayne rooney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-47c_8J4c

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #177 on: August 20, 2009, 10:04:56 PM »
I have already answered his question on page ten of this thread. I noticed that you never commented on my explanation RE: dung. Care to give me a clear and concise rebuttal if my logic is faulty? If it's faulty, could you be so kind as to point out the errors? If  it's not faulty then I can assume that you would agree that I'm correct?
Why did you use my post as a quote and then not even answer any of it? I'm curious that's all.

Could you quote your answer from page 10 as I can't find it.  You still haven't answered my question as far as I can tell.  

I guess you'll need to dumb it down for me.  Are you OK with the actions of your squaddies misrepresenting themselves as part of SAPP?

That would be a simple yes or no.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline Shifty

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #178 on: August 20, 2009, 10:08:26 PM »
Somebody has this in their signature block and I cannot remember who. However it seems fitting for this discussion.

Japanese Proverb

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.

JG-11"Black Hearts"...nur die Stolzen, nur die Starken

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Offline iTunes

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Re: Thanks from the SAPP 38 drivers
« Reply #179 on: August 20, 2009, 10:10:11 PM »
If he knew what an analogy was, he would understand one when he sees it, since he doesn't, well, you can see the results.


ack-ack

If you knew what a fallacy of division represented then we wouldn't be having this discussion. If you knew how to reason we would not be having this discussion.  I would suggest that you study argumentative analogies-there's two types, one has a premise/conclusion structure and the other has an explanatory function.  You tend to try and argue from Ignorance-another fallacy, your position is proven by a lack of conclusive evidence against it. I have shown otherwise.
Regards
Tunes.
The Class Acts.
JG54 Grunherz
iTunes- UK's finest killer of ack huggers and runners, mixing business with girls and thrills.
JG54/ Manchester United- Nobody likes us-we don't care... Goes by the name of Wayne rooney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-47c_8J4c