Tank Turret Shells

[RaptorL]

There's something that's been bothering me. When a tank fires a round you see the shell as a glowing yellow orb flying through the air. wouldn't it just be a black streak flying through the air. Can someone explain this.

[Blooz]

I can explain.

It's a game.





Pssst....In real life that shell would be coming so fast you wouldn't see it at all.

[VonMessa]

There's something that's been bothering me. When a tank fires a round you see the shell as a glowing yellow orb flying through the air. wouldn't it just be a black streak flying through the air. Can someone explain this.

Yes.

It's hot.

In fact, it is very hot.

Read Blooz's fine print.

Carry on.

[AirFlyer]

Seems pretty authentic on my screen. I'm either in the tower or just noticed a nice new hole that's appeared near my tank.

[10001212]

Once apon a time I drove tanks for a living in the Army. When we fired main-gun we saw a VERY fast moving glowing spec going downrange cause it had a tracer element on the round.........

[Strip]

The glowing orb is the tracer material burning at the back of the projectile.

They use it to increase round visibility downrange and adds to the projectiles range.

[Keiler]

The glowing orb is the tracer material burning at the back of the projectile.

Yes.

They use it to increase round visibility downrange

Yes.

 and adds to the projectiles range.

No, it doesnt create any thrust worth increasing the range of a tank shell.

Regards,
Matt

[Strip]

No, it doesnt create any thrust worth increasing the range of a tank shell.

"In fact, some artillery munitions and short-range rockets can achieve increased range (by 10 to 50%) by adding a small rocket-type gas generator; its plume fills the void at the base of the projectile with reaction gas at a finite pressure, thus increasing the base pressure of the projectile and reducing the base drag."

Sutton, George P., "Rocket Propulsion Elements: An Introduction to the Engineering of Rockets"
      New York: John Wiley & Sons, 1992. Pg 161

For the purposes of this conversation it applies, less drag means increased velocity downrange.

Edit: Of course if you really pressed me I can break out military testing on such matters.

Strip

[Lusche]

"In fact, some artillery munitions and short-range rockets can achieve increased range (by 10 to 50%) by adding a small rocket-type gas generator; its plume fills the void at the base of the projectile with reaction gas at a finite pressure, thus increasing the base pressure of the projectile and reducing the base drag."

Sutton, George P., "Rocket Propulsion Elements: An Introduction to the Engineering of Rockets"
      New York: John Wiley & Sons, 1992. Pg 161

For the purposes of this conversation it applies, less drag means increased velocity downrange.

Edit: Of course if you really pressed me I can break out military testing on such matters.

Strip

Yes. But that's a completely different thing. That's not the tracer material you were talking about earlier. Keiler is right when he says. It doesn't add speed and/or range.

[Strip]

Yes. But that's a completely different thing. That's not the tracer material you were talking about earlier. Keiler is right when he says. It doesn't add speed and/or range.

Lushce,
    I usually hold your opinion in very high regard but in this case your mistaken. Tracer material is basically rocket fuel with a phosphorus or magnesium fuel, the percentages and chemical composition are very close. While it doesn't necessarily add speed it reduces base drag, lower drag means longer flight. Guess I will have to break out the .50 BMG round testing I did for military work. I really didn't want to get into an debate involving ballistics, aerodynamics and chemical composition tho.

Strip

[Lusche]

Lushce,
    I usually hold your opinion in very high regard but in this case your mistaken. Tracer material is basically rocket fuel with a phosphorus or magnesium fuel, the percentages and chemical composition are very close. While it doesn't necessarily add speed it reduces base drag, lower drag means longer flight. Guess I will have to break out the .50 BMG round testing I did for military work. I really didn't want to get into an debate involving ballistics, aerodynamics and chemical composition tho.

Strip

We are talking about standard WW2 tank projectiles right?

[Strip]

The basic theory applies to all rounds, generally the larger the round and the longer duration of flight the more pronounced the effects.

So if anything its more pertinent to this conversation.

[Die Hard]

You're wrong this time Strip. Tracer rounds are not the same as rocket assisted projectiles. In fact the tracer rounds have slightly shorter range than a non tracer round since they are lighter due to some of the metal casing being replaced with the phosphorus chemical. This is more noticeable with smaller caliber rounds like the machine guns and light cannon used in WWII aircraft.

[Lusche]

You're wrong this time Strip. Tracer rounds are not the same as rocket assisted projectiles. In fact the tracer rounds have slightly shorter range than a non tracer round since they are lighter due to some of the metal casing being replaced with the phosphorus chemical. This is more noticeable with smaller caliber rounds like the machine guns and light cannon used in WWII aircraft.

In some way, he actually is right. What Strip is talking about are not rocket-assisted projectiles but base bleed projectile. The reduce drag by producing a stream of gas. However, tha WW2 tank projectiles are just tracer, not base bleeders.

[jdbecks]

tracer rounds are less accurate than normal ball point rounds.