spitfire XIV

[BnZs]

Imagine an AH with no spit16, no spit8 (nearly identical, those two). Now look at this late-war spit that climbs almost 5000feet per minute. It zooms like almost no other plane in the game, can climb like a 163 (probably better at certain alts!), and has 2 hizookas and 2 50cals.

Now tell me why it would NOT be perked?!?!?

Then introduce a spit16 that can match this climb rate, this armament, but also surpasses it in turning, handling, and roll rate.


The question isn't "why is the 14 perked" -- but "why isn't the 16?"


EDIT: As a follow-up, the handling alone isn't grounds to unperk something. The potential is there, just don't screw up when you fly it. Same goes for a 262. Same goes for a Tempest. Same goes for a Chog.

Krusty, there is no way in heaven or hell that any prop plane ever built can climb like a 163. You have abit of a point about the unperked nature of the 16, why do you make yourself look stupid with baseless hyperbole?

The SpitXIV is a plane that is double-superior to too many types to be unperked. The reason there are calls to unperk is because its handling is so inexplicably quirky that few can fly it well. Best solution IMO, rather than having scads of unperked SpitXIVs running down and eating for lunch most of the other high-speed E fighters in the MA,  is to fix the handling, and leave it perked.

[Motherland]

inexplicably

The handling is not inexplicably quirky.



Furthermore the Spitfire Mk XIV isn't a significantly better energy fighter than the Bf 109K-4, an aircraft that is not only unperked, yet has an ENY of 20, and it's (the XIV) got much larger handling vices.

[Guppy35]

aww lusche beat me to it, i deleted most of my post.

Last tour the tempest and spit14 had a similar number of individuals who flew them (around 650 each). Unsurprisingly the tempest had a much greater number of kills and k/d.

I would suggest it's because Tempest guys fly that bird fast BnZ, while Spit 14 drivers think it's going to be just like a 9 or 16 and try and fly it that way when in fact they should fly it much more like flying a Tempest then a Merlin Spit.

[Lusche]

But even when flying the 14 strictly BnZ like a Tempest, it has still some drawbacks compared to the latter one that result in getting less kills, (and ultimately less sorties)

- less firepower
- much less stable gun platform
- bad high speed handling (now that can really cripple a BnZ plane for the average player)
- short range
- lower top speed where it matters. The Temp can outrun almost everything. The 14 not so much.


I often take the Tempest when there's a base under heavy attack, and the sector dar is all red and no green to decimate the horde, working top down. In a 14 I would have less time, more difficulties killing with a quick D400 snapshot vs a crossing target, and I would know that unlike the Tempest I most probably won't make it back alive...

[Guppy35]

But even when flying the 14 strictly BnZ like a Tempest, it has still some drawbacks compared to the latter one that result in getting less kills, (and ultimately less sorties)

- less firepower
- much less stable gun platform
- bad high speed handling (now that can really cripple a BnZ plane for the average player)
- short range
- lower top speed where it matters. The Temp can outrun almost everything. The 14 not so much.

Not disagreeing with any of that.  The point is the same however.  The Spit XIV isn't a turn and burn Merlin Spit so much as a boom and zoom Griffon Spit.  I don't think folks fly it to it's strengths is all.

[Anaxogoras]

Not disagreeing with any of that.  The point is the same however.  The Spit XIV isn't a turn and burn Merlin Spit so much as a boom and zoom Griffon Spit.  I don't think folks fly it to it's strengths is all.

But even if you fly it to its strengths, it's near impossible to hold the nose in one spot.

[Lusche]

Now this is going to be very subjective, but let me say anyway:

I do fly the 14 in BnZ mode, similar to how I fly a 109K-4.
But even when I was flying the 14 a lot and could say "I'm used to it", I had much less success than in a K-4.

[BnZs]

The handling is not inexplicably quirky.
(Image removed from quote.)


Furthermore the Spitfire Mk XIV isn't a significantly better energy fighter than the Bf 109K-4, an aircraft that is not only unperked, yet has an ENY of 20, and it's (the XIV) got much larger handling vices.

You'll get no argument from me that an ENY of 20 for the Kurt is out-of-whack.

The torque from a high power/weight ratio doesn't quite cut it as an explanation though Motherland. If so, the La7 and the 109K4 should be just about as squirrely. (SpitXIV It is STILL squirrely with the throttle pulled back.) The one bad mark I've read in pilot reports about the XIV concerned ground handling...otherwise it was felt pilots used to previous Mks. of Spit would handle it just fine. The SpitXIV handles almost as squirrely as the Ta-152, a plane whose handling deficiencies are well documented in the record, so why haven't we heard British test pilots saying "You couldn't hold the bloody thing's nose steady"?

[moot]

What recorded deficiencies are you refering to?  Just curious.
The 152 is easier to handle than the XIV, IMO, and definitely not as squirrely.  You just need to keep the tail in check.. Past departure you've got very gradual behavior 95% of the time.  Whereas the XIV is much less easy to control and quicker to depart.

[BnZs]

I'm pretty much getting this from one of your posts Moot...wasn't the 152 almost ruled unfit for service because it lacked steadieness as a gun platform?

What recorded deficiencies are you refering to?  Just curious.
The 152 is easier to handle than the XIV, IMO, and definitely not as squirrely.  You just need to keep the tail in check.. Past departure you've got very gradual behavior 95% of the time.  Whereas the XIV is much less easy to control and quicker to depart.

[Karnak]

Not disagreeing with any of that.  The point is the same however.  The Spit XIV isn't a turn and burn Merlin Spit so much as a boom and zoom Griffon Spit.  I don't think folks fly it to it's strengths is all.

Dan, I am not so sure that is accurate anymore.  Yes, when it was new I'd agree, but now with so few using it to any degree, I would have to think those that do know it isn't a turner.

I also wonder how many take it up by accident, having intended to take a Mk XVI.

[RTHolmes]

I'm still trying to work out the best way to use it, it has issues as a pure BnZer compared to others - mostly high speed rollrate, although mixed guns and shortish firing time dont help either. although less stable than other spits it can still turn well and its very useful in a med-speed angles fight, and the acceleration gives a useful edge. Ive been surprised by how good it actually is TnBing on the deck.

people always say its the high-alt spit, but the flat spot at 21-23k is a nightmare if you're out of WEP (max boost is 6ish?) I reckon its just as capable low down, its still 20mph faster than all the other spits.

[moot]

BnZ that was the evaluation luftwaffles at Rechlin's nastygram.. Anecdotic (meaning qualitative only) and not like what you heard from the pilots.  In any case, in the game the 152 isn't as difficult to manage as the XIV.

[Krusty]

Krusty, there is no way in heaven or hell that any prop plane ever built can climb like a 163.

How often do you fly a 163?

Do you ever pay attention when you do?

Because the E6B and the climb meter say two wildly different numbers. Most times it'll do 5000fpm or less. The only difference is in the 163 it keeps doing that rate where other engines (props) lose power the higher you go.

So yes, prop planes CAN outclimb the Komet. It all depends. And the Spit14 is probably the best climbing prop in the game.

[Krusty]

BnZ that was the evaluation luftwaffles at Rechlin's nastygram.. Anecdotic (meaning qualitative only) and not like what you heard from the pilots.  In any case, in the game the 152 isn't as difficult to manage as the XIV.

I disagree... You may simply be more comfortable in it.

The 152 has nose bounce like the spit14 does. It's got a squirrelly tail, long wingtips, and can flip/stall/dip itself out of the sky in a heartbeat. The spit14 is a lot more squirrely in some areas, much less so in others. Pure flying difficulty, I think they are equal. Killing power, the spitty is easier to kill with. My 2c.