Dueling Arena squads disbanded

[bj229r]

I don't speak for moot, but my guess is:

Every kill helps the strategic environment in the MA whether it's a gang kill or not. It eliminates a threat and allows the strategic game to progress closer to its end goal of taking bases. Whether you get a kill or not or if you get a good fight is immaterial so long as it "helps the team".

In the DA, the end goal is not to take any bases, therefore there is no real justification for ganging (beyond a somewhat reasonable 2:1 or 3:1). The goal is to fly in there, have a fight and get a kill. If you gang, then only one person is going to get the kill, and most of the gang will not be getting a fight.

Excellent observation, yet many of those posting in this thread seem to prefer it as such....how much fun CAN one have flying about in an insular blob of 8-10 planes cornering 1 plane ata time and ganging it into the water before moving onto the next

[TnDep]

I don't speak for moot, but my guess is:

Every kill helps the strategic environment in the MA whether it's a gang kill or not. It eliminates a threat and allows the strategic game to progress closer to its end goal of taking bases. Whether you get a kill or not or if you get a good fight is immaterial so long as it "helps the team".

In the DA, the end goal is not to take any bases, therefore there is no real justification for ganging (beyond a somewhat reasonable 2:1 or 3:1). The goal is to fly in there, have a fight and get a kill. If you gang, then only one person is going to get the kill, and most of the gang will not be getting a fight.

Thank You for explaining boomerlu and that totally makes sense. 

[Whiskey3]

  Lynx, if ever, someone was suffering from a very raw case of Diaper Rash it would be you. If we of the DA r so offensive to you, why don't u either put up or shut up!!!!!!! In other words 'come on by n' fly' if ya think ya can take havin' yer head handed to ya over 'n, over n' over n', etc., etc., etc.,

[gpwurzel]

Wow, someone's brave given Lynx has left the game.

Personally, I never understood why there were squads in the DA - that said, I'm really not bothered if there are or not. On the few occasions I've flown in furball lake, its been fun, and good practise for a multi plane engagement in the MA. Basically, it is what it is, no one single person is going to change it.

Wurzel

[TnDep]

Excellent observation, yet many of those posting in this thread seem to prefer it as such....how much fun CAN one have flying about in an insular blob of 8-10 planes cornering 1 plane ata time and ganging it into the water before moving onto the next

I know this goes on and all 3 bases are very good at this.  I've been on the recieving end alot lol.... but when I go out to the lake and you look at the map you normally see a stragler out there that you can go fight 1on1.  Especially when theres alot on if you search you will find that 1on1, but at the same time if you don't keep your eyes out you get picked everytime

[Anaxogoras]

The ganging and hording is just as bad in furball lake as the main arena.  The only difference is the average skill and knowledge of the players doing it.

[WMLute]

The ganging and hording is just as bad in furball lake as the main arena.  The only difference is the average skill and knowledge of the players doing it.

Which arena are you saying has the higher skill level?

[TnDep]

Which arena are you saying has the higher skill level?

My personal opinion is that their are great sticks in both arenas.  If your talking about the totality of the players I would say the MA because they have the vest majority of the numbers.  But if you pick the top 10 from both arenas I think it would become a much closer match. 

[SlapShot]

If not control, what is your point to being so concerned about people and how they have fun in the furball zone?

My concern is self-centered.

I want to go to that area and have the same "respect" for the fight as it was back in the old day when killshooter was off. I use to spend a fair amount of time in the "old" DA due to the "respect" mindset ... that is definitely not today's mindset ... hence I very rarely spend time in the DA now.

In the past, I could take off from a field ... get up to fighting speed ... and then look for the "fight". People buzzing around the field would "respect" when you were on climb-out and not blow you out of the sky ... not the case now ... there is no waiting for someone to get into a "fair" position for a good "fair" fight ... case in point ... they now will de-ack fields and vulch if given the chance.

People would also "respect" an active engagement ... and then wait their turn to take on the "winner". I was in the DA the other day a flew the edge of the lake hoping that if someone did engage and someone else happened by ... they would "respect" the fight seeing as the "fight" was not really in the center (furball zone) ... not the case ... I was engaged and the fight was on, but others who happened by could not "respect" the fight that was already in progress and felt the need to jump right in ... this happened to me twice and the guy that killed me was never the one the I was initially engaged with.

In both of those cases, the fight started with a 1 v 1, then it became a 1 v 2 (ok ... I can handle that) ... then a quickly became a 3 v 1 ... not good, in the midst of handling the 2 v 1 I have lost my position, speed and E for a 3 v 1, but still in a relatively good position with the 2 initial guys I was fighting, so adding the 3rd target things really start to go bad quickly ... then number 4 decides to join the fray ... at this point I am pure defense, 200ft AGL, just above stall speed ... yet all 4 feel the need to keep coming back any firing at my flopping plane at any angle they can get a guns solutions on ... just so they can get the kill ... I don't get it.

Yeah ... that was a lot of fun for me ... NOT.

What should have happened ...

The second, third and fourth guys on the scene should have circled and watched the fight(s) and if the outcome was me winning ... wait until I get some speed back and then engage ... that type of mindset is a win win situation for all.

Personally, and from my observations, the mindset in the DA is kill at all cost so I can "land" the kills ... and this is what fuels the "ganging" and why you will see 5 v 1 like the picture that moot posted. I just don't understand what type of self-gratification that one could get from participating in a 5 v 1 and scoring the kill ... you surely proved nothing to your adversary and what did you prove to yourself ? ... can you be proud of that kill ? ... I think not.

On the other hand, if I do fly right into the middle of the "furball" in the center of the lake ... ALL BETS ARE OFF ... everyone and anyone that is red is a fair target ... regardless if engaged or not. But ... I have seen guys dive out of the furball ... possibly to get back up to speed or one guy is really attached to his 6 ... and watched 4-5 others dive down with him and chase him until he has to re-engage. Again, why ? ... where is the satisfaction in that ? ... are there not enough targets in the live furball to take on ... I think the mindset is ... "there is an easy kill that I can add to my belt".

As far as squads ... You can take on one guy from a squad and spank him badly or he gets upset that he lost to you ... so the next time he comes back ... he has squaddies in hand and they all swarm you for "revenge" ... lots of fun and the guy that got beat ... he just learned a boatload.

Rather than message you and ask to get in another fight and see if he can fair better or just plain ask ... "How did you do that ? ... I need to know" ... nope ... not the case ... you need to die at all costs.

To me, the DA is a place to learn ... engaging in 5 v 1 ... ganging ... picking planes off that are already engaged (away from the furball) is not "learning" and detracts from what that place is supposed to be about.

So ... my self-centered concern is the lack of "respect" and I would like to see it become the norm in that arena and not a fleeting notion that one sees on occasion.

[WMLute]

My personal opinion is that their are great sticks in both arenas.  If your talking about the totality of the players I would say the MA because they have the vest majority of the numbers.  But if you pick the top 10 from both arenas I think it would become a much closer match. 

Wouldn't even be close.

[Hawk55]

Wouldn't even be close.

Amen to that Lute!  You and Karaya are two of the best sticks in the game, yet you're the most gracious & respectful people who are always ready to help someone improve their flying, regardless of country.   

[Anaxogoras]

Which arena are you saying has the higher skill level?

Do you have to ask?  Furball lake is like baby seal clubbing.

[mechanic]

Slappy, nice post. I have a couple of points to discuss on it but right now i'm short on time. All I will say now is that the old DA didnt have a furball zone. What you speak of still happens at the dueling fields. The furball zone is, to me, a different kettle of fish all together. Good post though, i hope some people will see your motives and understand how they benifit everyone in the long term.
 


edit: actualy i dont think i do have any other points

[boomerlu]

In the past, I could take off from a field ... get up to fighting speed ... and then look for the "fight". People buzzing around the field would "respect" when you were on climb-out and not blow you out of the sky ... not the case now ... there is no waiting for someone to get into a "fair" position for a good "fair" fight ... case in point ... they now will de-ack fields and vulch if given the chance.

A few things. I see where you are coming from with this post and I understand it. I'd like to point a few things out.

1) De-ack and vulch? I don't think I've seen a de-ack in the past few weeks. It probably happens on occasion, usually by one side getting pissed as a group. Time to leave the DA and wait for it to chill out if it happens.

Vulchers? Typically the people vulching in DA are pretty bad. They are easy to evade and not even worth batting an eyelash over beyond making one break turn to avoid them. Sure I see your point, but I find it a waste of energy getting PO'd at something that doesn't bother me in any practical sense. Every time I have died to a vulcher (maybe 1% of my flights), it was because I was stupid and actually tried to engage him. 50% of the time I see a vulching Temp over my base, I fly straight into the furball and he doesn't even bother me. The other 49% of the time I dodge one (very bad) attack and then proceed to fly straight into the furball.

These types aren't worth bothering with. They also don't represent the majority of the DA.

2) Respect for a fair fight? Please please please just ask for a 1v1 and take it to a side field and agree on rules. I see where you're coming from - code of honor etc etc, but really in the furball portion (even on the sides) rarely will you find a fair fight even if it's a 1v1 that no one interrupts. When I really want a fair fight I take it to a side field, agree on rules, and mirror-match planes or at least both people agree on the particular dissimilar rides to take.

There are so many variables here - plane matchup, E-state, initial positional advantage/disadvantage, awareness (or lack thereof) of the enemy. Seriously, if fairness is a big concern, then you don't leave it up to chance.

3) Respect for the fight whether it was fair to begin with or not, especially one that's away from the main furball area. Yeah I agree with you on this one. I hate it when I'm in a good fight in the outskirts of the lake (over the dry land portion usually) and it gets interrupted.

Still, if there are no players like you to get mad at the 1v1 pickers etc, then it will never change. There's no arena message, and even if there were I'm not sure how many would read it. I used to be kind of clueless too, then I saw the value of leaving some fights alone, or at least asking before engaging - this was mostly after one or two people actually got angry at me and then later I had some good fights interrupted.

My personal mindset is usually "just-ask" but after flying a while, I understand some people can't get around to responding while in the middle of the fight. This is why I agree with you on respect for the fight, at least in a DA type environment - because sometimes asking isn't enough.

4) 1vMany. When I fight in the furball, I typically fly fast BnZ planes and pick (I will up an E fighter and knife fight if there are not enough people to sustain a good furball). Often times I will get a huge gaggle attached to my arse. I then proceed to dive to the deck (they follow), then I drag them to my friends who all have a huge E advantage and they make short work of the dumb horde. Or if my friends don't have a huge E-advantage, they all meet and have a nice great furball and I can re-engage. And by friends I don't mean squad - just my country mates who are more than happy to clear me. The level of team work I see in the DA furball is more consistent than that I see in MA. Sometimes MA teamwork does amaze me - I typically fly great sorties when this happens, but generally we are all too scattered.

Anyways, back on point. We should see more "1vMany drags" as opposed to "1vMany I'm going down in a blaze of glory." The former promotes wider fights and furballs whereas the latter promotes whining about getting ganged. Sure you sometimes can't do anything about the latter, but I still see many gangs where the guy should have just bugged out ages ago.

[Shuffler]