What's a "rope, fake rope?".

[onan]

Hi guys.
Noob question on terms.
Can you tell me what a rope is?  I heard one guy say "setting up a rope" and another say
"setting a fake rope".

Have been flying P47-D-11

Thanks

[Anaxogoras]

There's lots of ways to set it up, but a rope is where you get the bandit to stall out beneath you, and then you drop down and kill him.  You've probably done this without knowing its name.

The basic idea is to give the impression that your pursuer has enough energy to follow you into a climb and shoot you.  Sometimes he will have enough energy to get close, but the extremely low speed at the end of a vertical climb should leave him unable to aim.  At the top of your own climb, nose high, you do a quick 180 about 1000 yards above the bandit, sometimes back off the throttle or use some flaps (it all depends on the airfcraft and situation), and shoot him dead while he's floundering.

I'm not clear on what a fake rope is.

[thrila]

A fake rope sounds like you go up, but with no intention to kill the con.  I'm not sure why anyone would wish to do that.

[Bruv119]

a rope is a rope.  Usually setting up a con for your wingman to kill.  if you climb up straight make sure the enemy cannot catch you .

A fake rope i would say is more disguising the amount of energy you really have by spiral climbing or just not climbing straight up vertical.  Basically encouraging the enemy con to come up and have a go when you then pull up even higher and then roll in for the kill.

[bbosen]

Back in the olden (Air Warrior) days we used to use the more complete name "Rope a dope". The term has become abbreviated to "rope".


-Peabody-

[CAP1]

There's lots of ways to set it up, but a rope is where you get the bandit to stall out beneath you, and then you drop down and kill him.  You've probably done this without knowing its name.

The basic idea is to give the impression that your pursuer has enough energy to follow you into a climb and shoot you.  Sometimes he will have enough energy to get close, but the extremely low speed at the end of a vertical climb should leave him unable to aim.  At the top of your own climb, nose high, you do a quick 180 about 1000 yards above the bandit, sometimes back off the throttle or use some flaps (it all depends on the airfcraft and situation), and shoot him dead while he's floundering.

I'm not clear on what a fake rope is.

and i think the key is to let him close enough to think he has a shot at you........

[onan]

Thanks for the info'.   

I've been killed many times for following guys up, thinking I can get guns on.

[Bruv119]

judging your 'E' state and your enemies will take awhile,

Planes like the niki, a6m5, ki84 , spit 16 can all climb up vertically really well so if your flying a fat bellybutton jug or pony you have to be very careful.

Be sure your hauling some serious speed advantage before going vertical with any of the above

[CAP1]

judging your 'E' state and your enemies will take awhile,

Planes like the niki, a6m5, ki84 , spit 16 can all climb up vertically really well so if your flying a fat bellybutton jug or pony you have to be very careful.

Be sure your hauling some serious speed advantage before going vertical with any of the above

VS MY P38J, i've had all but the 84 drop before i did. the key is to not misjudge their speed. i've never fought an 84 yet.

 i tend to keep my eye on them, and if i see em lift their nose for a shot, i pull a little steeper, forcing them to do the same....this is what generally seems to screw em up.

[Bruv119]

VS MY P38J, i've had all but the 84 drop before i did. the key is to not misjudge their speed. i've never fought an 84 yet.

 i tend to keep my eye on them, and if i see em lift their nose for a shot, i pull a little steeper, forcing them to do the same....this is what generally seems to screw em up.

yea i forgot to mention the B38  two engines = cheating. 

[CAP1]

yea i forgot to mention the B38  two engines = cheating. 

it's not "cheating". it's "improvising" 

i should add though, that should you use the 38, and misjudge their speed.....you're a REALLY large target haningin up in front of them. 

[SgtPappy]

I have huge trouble capitalizing on the 38's vertical capabilities. On defense, I can't really get anything done. I dive and run for a bit and when i try to reverse while they're still behind me I have to pull something like a spiral climb. Is there anything that can make my spiral climb better if the enemy has only slightly less E?

It seems to be the only maneuver that can just work against Spitfire VIII/IX/XVI in particular, though I still can't really catch the VIII/IX especially. I don't know whether it's a matter of spilling all mys speed quickly in the spiral or making them somehow lose some E before I initiate the climb...

[Anaxogoras]

It seems to be the only maneuver that can just work against Spitfire VIII/IX/XVI in particular, though I still can't really catch the VIII/IX especially. I don't know whether it's a matter of spilling all mys speed quickly in the spiral or making them somehow lose some E before I initiate the climb...

Trying to outclimb a Spit VIII or XVI is not going to end well.  Heck, I've had trouble out climbing those two planes in the 109K-4.  I wouldn't even consider it in the P-38, unless you're talking about starting with significantly more energy.

The way to beat the Spitfires in the P-38 is to get the fight as slow as possible.  You want to make the fight a contest over who can best minimize their forward velocity, because that is one way in which the P-38s are clearly superior to the Spitfires.

For the sake of comparison:

[Steve]

I love a good rope!  Against the hordes, this is a quite effective culling tool

[SgtPappy]

Ah thanks Anaxogoras. Perhaps it is more of a matter of learning how to have the 38 as a second skin; having a better feel for its handling qualities because I still feel like I lose control every now and then at really slow speeds.