Author Topic: Engines runing full blast  (Read 8043 times)

Offline Stiglr

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #150 on: September 05, 2009, 10:37:01 PM »
Dale wrote:

Quote
And your switches are not real in any way shape or form, can you reach out and grab the switch and raise it? If not how can you call your game a sim.

This truly shows how little you understand about simulation. You don't need to be able to "grab a physical switch" to simulate doing it, nor to simulate the importance of doing that task in the real plane. That's why it's a simulation instead of a "virtual reality". I don't also need to tell you that even though you can't feel Gs and you don't really black out, having your screen go tunnel vision and having the simulator start ignoring stick input is a pretty good simulation of G-LOC effects (which, yes, I have felt in real life; it's one reason I usually don't complain about having it happen to me in a sim or a game...! :) ) C'mon, Dale, you can do better than that... that's a true GAMER dodge argument.

On viewing and simulating viewing: we see things completely differently in this regard. While I don't claim to have as much flight time as you, when I did fly a WWII-era trainer, one of the first things I noticed was, strapped in with a parachute pack, your viewing is highly restricted. And that's in a cockpit with a big, long, Dauntless-style canopy. You don't have a lot of range of movement in a cramped fighter canopy, and the majority of pilots did strap in. That "dog with his head outside the car window" capability, that I first saw in the first iterations of AH, is laughable. WWII planes were infamous for their lack of ability to see behind the wingline; that's why they developed bubble canopies and why today's jets have the pilot in a perspex bubble on top of the fuselage for the most part.  And it was also the main reason why you tended to fly with a wingman: part of his job was to watch your 4-8:00 arc, because you yourself couldn't very well. Dealing with that reality is part of the challenge of flying... and as such, part of the challenge of a sim.

I'll have to take your word for your accuracy vs. charts. But then, Oleg Maddox says the same thing about IL-2, and you don't even need a chart to see how full of crap his evaluation is. Then there's the little matter of how he is adamant about how the position of the gunsight is in his Focke Wulf... accurate according to the blueprints, he says. Unfortunately, he won't listen when you tell him that because his sim doesn't model the visual effects of refraction through very thick armored glass, the effect in-game is that a good portion of that gunsight is obscured from the player's view, especially if he's pulling any kind of G. Now, I'm not saying he should model refraction... but I am saying he shouldn't saddle the FW pilots in his sim with an obscured view through the gunsight. The most equitable solution, of course, is to "artificially" raise the sight a smidge on his model to give the player the actual view the pilots of the 190 saw... but no, Oleg just goes to his, "Is correct, be sure" argument-ender, ignoring inconvenient facts in both reality AND in game design.  

So, as you can see, there are lies, damned lies and then there's statistics. In Oleg's case, he's right from a physical standpoint, and totally wrong from a game design (as in, the effect on the players) viewpoint.

We both probably agree that there's a mix of gameplay decisions and practical performance decisions and some desire to get the facts right, and all three are at play, whether your goal is a game or a sim. But, from all the policies you're defending here, and the rea$on$ behind mo$t of them, I can't possibly agree that anything can be accurate in Aces High.

Offline Stoney

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #151 on: September 05, 2009, 11:45:41 PM »
Stiglr, why don't you just go away?
"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

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Offline hitech

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #152 on: September 05, 2009, 11:46:11 PM »
As I said,Im done, you again just throw more darts. Completely change the topic, and can not form any logical argument. You are now complaining about a different game company and trying to use there views to do I do not know. And then you throw the dart

"I can't possibly agree that anything can be accurate in Aces High" With hyperbole like that you do not believe anyone can take you serious do you?

HiTech
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 11:51:02 PM by hitech »

Offline trigger2

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #153 on: September 05, 2009, 11:48:43 PM »
Stiglr, honest question, do you have any real flight experiance? Coding experiance? If you answered no on either, please, shut up...

In flight things are different than from your nice little armchair. You see, there you're actually at risk, combat or not. There, you can physically feel the effects of what you do, you feel the strain of what you do, you feel. In here, you don't. The gauges, no, they're not realistic, but nor do they need to be. They relay the same information, do the same job, and do it just as well. In real planes, the gauges may be different, they may be positioned differently, you may have a VFR panel, or you may have a glass cockpit, but it all does the same.exact.thing. The thing is COMMUNICATION, which was MUCH more important in WWII than ANY panel you had, plain and simple.

So, again I ask, do you have any REAL flight experiance? Coding experiance? If no, shut up.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #154 on: September 05, 2009, 11:49:41 PM »
Stiglr, why don't you develop your own game...oh wait, you don't know what it takes to develop a game.  My mistake.


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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #155 on: September 05, 2009, 11:54:20 PM »
Masherbrum writes:

It shows how little you understand what I wrote. I'm not saying that being American is a bad thing. I'm American and proud of it. But, I'm also proud to say that I do have a bit of a world view, too, and the two are not mutually-exclusive as the Rush Limbaugh/Glen Becks of the world might have you believe.

I mention the "American viewpoint" because that's what Dale expressed to me as his reason for not having accurate gauges in the aircraft pits. Either that or the so-called "confusion" explanation are both paper-thin.

@ Dale: 'murrian is derogatory? A slur? Really? According to exactly whom? If you can show that it is, I'll amend every post I've used the term in to read "American".

You were being condescending in your use of "Murrican" and in every post so far. 
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #156 on: September 05, 2009, 11:55:26 PM »
As I said,Im done, you again just throw more darts. Completely change the topic, and can not form any logical argument. You are now complaining about a different game company and trying to use there views to do I do not know. And then you throw the dart

"I can't possibly agree that anything can be accurate in Aces High" With hyperbole like that you do not believe anyone can take you serious do you?

HiTech

Thanks for the hard work Dale.   
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Offline Stiglr

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #157 on: September 05, 2009, 11:55:54 PM »
1) Yes, just a very little. I had a flight in a T6 Texan trainer (some time ago...!) I actually did take control and fly the thing. The "real" pilot in the back seat was amazed that, even though I had no experience prior to that, that I could move the plane through the air as well as I did. But then, I underestimated the amount of G I'd pull recovering at the bottom of a loop and had a nice G-LOC experience (didn't think I'd need to "crap the football" for 'just' a loop...) But, it gave me an appreciation for the subject, I will tell you that.

2) Coding. Well... define "coding". I've had to get into the nuts and bolts of the Targetware code, although I don't (and have no desire) to write the CORE code. I do know quite a bit about 3D modeling, 2D artwork (steadily improving to 'yeoman' quality in that arena, although i don't yet hold a candle to the talented individuals who can actually say they're "good"). I am now creating a mod at Targetware called Target:Corregidor, and in that process, I've created and populated an entire full scale terrain of the Philippines and Dutch East Indies, created some 15 planes and variants from scratch, textured those planes, modelled the cockpits and textured those, created some new objects that didn't exist before, written scenarios, and written tutorials to show others how to do some of these things.

How about YOU?

Offline Karnak

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #158 on: September 05, 2009, 11:56:43 PM »
Stiglr,

There were three units of measurement used by fighters in WWII, not two.  The IJN used knots for speed.


As to your comment about engines out of combat, you are still wrong.  The only reason in a one off aircraft to limit engine power is for fuel endurance, the very reason AH has increased fuel consumption.
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Offline Stiglr

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #159 on: September 05, 2009, 11:57:27 PM »
Stiglr, why don't you develop your own game...oh wait, you don't know what it takes to develop a game.  My mistake.


ack-ack

No your mistake is that I already AM doing exactly that. Oops.... didn't count on that one, did you?

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #160 on: September 05, 2009, 11:59:07 PM »
jdbecks wrote:
 :O

Hooo boy, where do I start with THAT one?

For one, accuracy in the cockpit can't do anything but INCREASE immersion. Have you ever looked into the cockpit of a REAL aircraft in a museum and had a deja vu experience because that's almost exactly how it looks in the sim you play? If you fly AH, probably not. I've had the pleasure of that experience, because in my sim, most of the aircraft ARE faithfully recreated... and I make sure to put that kind of detail in any cockpit I produce myself.

For two, how much "immersion" is there in the unheard of scenario of a "Spitfire winging up with a 109"???? That only happens in a silly arena game, it wouldn't happen in a SIM.

And finally, for three, I could "wing with" either of those planes and keep the units straight in my head. Only because I've done so for quite some time. It's really not that hard...  :rolleyes:

Out of curiosity, have you ever heard of "Vaporware" or Paul Hinds?   Because you're now slamming Dale, Roy, Doug, Dan and every HTC worker.
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Offline Stiglr

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #161 on: September 05, 2009, 11:59:30 PM »
Stiglr,

There were three units of measurement used by fighters in WWII, not two.  The IJN used knots for speed.


As to your comment about engines out of combat, you are still wrong.  The only reason in a one off aircraft to limit engine power is for fuel endurance, the very reason AH has increased fuel consumption.

Incorrect. History and fact show that pilots leaned out AND throttled back, both for fuel economy and to avoid needlessly taxing the engine. As I said before, REAL pilots have said that they saved the 100% setting for combat, when they really needed it.

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #162 on: September 05, 2009, 11:59:46 PM »
Stiglr,

There were three units of measurement used by fighters in WWII, not two.  The IJN used knots for speed.


As to your comment about engines out of combat, you are still wrong.  The only reason in a one off aircraft to limit engine power is for fuel endurance, the very reason AH has increased fuel consumption.

Correct
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Offline StokesAk

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #163 on: September 06, 2009, 12:00:27 AM »
Stiglr you like that one wierd kid that HAS to sit with you and your friends at the lunch table. GO AWAY!
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Offline Stiglr

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #164 on: September 06, 2009, 12:01:07 AM »
Quote
Out of curiosity, have you ever heard of "Vaporware" or Paul Hinds?   Because you're now slamming Dale, Roy, Doug, Dan and every HTC worker.

Not the vaguest idea of who or what you're talking about there... sorry...