Author Topic: Engines runing full blast  (Read 7186 times)

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #165 on: September 06, 2009, 12:03:20 AM »
Now I know why the TW servers are always empty: their pilots spend too much time arguing on internet bulletin boards. :devil
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Offline trigger2

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #166 on: September 06, 2009, 12:08:39 AM »
How about YOU?

Yup, as I stated before, Cessna 172 and 182, the 182 a glass. When I was learning, my instructor on my first flight had informed me that, "I was better than most of his certified students."

Coding, I'm a C# guy, I've had experience coding for multiple things, mostly small businesses looking for something in specific (from auto-mailing lists to simple multiplayer games). I also do FLASH, although I'd say I'm still just learning it.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 12:11:00 AM by trigger2 »
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #167 on: September 06, 2009, 01:01:45 AM »
No your mistake is that I already AM doing exactly that. Oops.... didn't count on that one, did you?

Let me guess, TAS II?  :D


ack-ack
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #168 on: September 06, 2009, 01:03:54 AM »


2) Coding. Well... define "coding". I've had to get into the nuts and bolts of the Targetware code, although I don't (and have no desire) to write the CORE code. I do know quite a bit about 3D modeling, 2D artwork (steadily improving to 'yeoman' quality in that arena, although i don't yet hold a candle to the talented individuals who can actually say they're "good"). I am now creating a mod at Targetware called Target:Corregidor, and in that process, I've created and populated an entire full scale terrain of the Philippines and Dutch East Indies, created some 15 planes and variants from scratch, textured those planes, modelled the cockpits and textured those, created some new objects that didn't exist before, written scenarios, and written tutorials to show others how to do some of these things.

How about YOU?

I personally stopped counting how many games my name appears in the credits after 10.


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Saxman

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #169 on: September 06, 2009, 01:22:18 AM »

2) Coding. Well... define "coding". I've had to get into the nuts and bolts of the Targetware code, although I don't (and have no desire) to write the CORE code. I do know quite a bit about 3D modeling, 2D artwork (steadily improving to 'yeoman' quality in that arena, although i don't yet hold a candle to the talented individuals who can actually say they're "good"). I am now creating a mod at Targetware called Target:Corregidor, and in that process, I've created and populated an entire full scale terrain of the Philippines and Dutch East Indies, created some 15 planes and variants from scratch, textured those planes, modelled the cockpits and textured those, created some new objects that didn't exist before, written scenarios, and written tutorials to show others how to do some of these things.


Explain to me again why you're here squeaking and moaning about someone else's work, then?

I'm wondering if hitech hasn't put the hammer down out of some perverse amusement he's taking from watching Stiggie hang himself on his own cluelessness. It's like watching a cat toying with a mouse before finishing it off. :D
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline moot

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #170 on: September 06, 2009, 01:33:11 AM »
Somewhow he can't get this dead simple thing thru his TW goggles..
[AH's] goal is to duplicate flight dynamics.

Ya know.. Maybe TW is this starved for players.  Whaddaya bet this is TW fans scraping the bottom by trying to discredit competitors - AH & co? :lol  Woulda worked better by not holding something against AH, that AH is fundamentally, purposedly made to be.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 01:35:35 AM by moot »
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Widewing

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #171 on: September 06, 2009, 02:37:55 AM »
Incorrect. History and fact show that pilots leaned out AND throttled back, both for fuel economy and to avoid needlessly taxing the engine. As I said before, REAL pilots have said that they saved the 100% setting for combat, when they really needed it.

You don't go to auto-lean for any other purpose but to cut fuel consumption. Rich mixture lowers combustion chamber temps, enhancing engine life. Back in the 1940s, running lean for long periods could lead-foul the spark plugs. This was especially problematic when 150 octane fuels were introduced in 1944. Thus, it was essential that you bring the mixture, prop and throttle up to Normal Power periodically to clear the plugs, or you could find yourself way down on power at a critical moment. Wait too long and loaded plugs will start to misfire, and then the plugs may not clear regardless of power setting.


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline Saxman

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #172 on: September 06, 2009, 09:09:08 AM »
You don't go to auto-lean for any other purpose but to cut fuel consumption. Rich mixture lowers combustion chamber temps, enhancing engine life. Back in the 1940s, running lean for long periods could lead-foul the spark plugs. This was especially problematic when 150 octane fuels were introduced in 1944. Thus, it was essential that you bring the mixture, prop and throttle up to Normal Power periodically to clear the plugs, or you could find yourself way down on power at a critical moment. Wait too long and loaded plugs will start to misfire, and then the plugs may not clear regardless of power setting.


My regards,

Widewing

Maybe it's just me, but that sounds a lot like THE OPPOSITE of what Stiggie wants.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #173 on: September 06, 2009, 09:44:08 AM »
1) Yes, just a very little. I had a flight in a T6 Texan trainer (some time ago...!) I actually did take control and fly the thing. The "real" pilot in the back seat was amazed that, even though I had no experience prior to that, that I could move the plane through the air as well as I did. But then, I underestimated the amount of G I'd pull recovering at the bottom of a loop and had a nice G-LOC experience (didn't think I'd need to "crap the football" for 'just' a loop...) But, it gave me an appreciation for the subject, I will tell you that.

2) Coding. Well... define "coding". I've had to get into the nuts and bolts of the Targetware code, although I don't (and have no desire) to write the CORE code. I do know quite a bit about 3D modeling, 2D artwork (steadily improving to 'yeoman' quality in that arena, although i don't yet hold a candle to the talented individuals who can actually say they're "good"). I am now creating a mod at Targetware called Target:Corregidor, and in that process, I've created and populated an entire full scale terrain of the Philippines and Dutch East Indies, created some 15 planes and variants from scratch, textured those planes, modelled the cockpits and textured those, created some new objects that didn't exist before, written scenarios, and written tutorials to show others how to do some of these things.

How about YOU?


WOW !!! you flew in a real plane once !!! You stud you !!


I think someones mad because nobody is playing "his" game any more, because they are all playing Aces High instead. While a "big man" over there, he can't even rise to dweeb here. What do you kids say ...... FAIL !    :D

Offline hitech

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #174 on: September 06, 2009, 09:51:12 AM »
Quote
But, I'm also proud to say that I do have a bit of a world view, too, and the two are not mutually-exclusive as the Rush Limbaugh/Glen Becks of the world might have you believe.

This is almost laughable how arrogant it is. In one fell swoop stiglr is trying to say that using metric in a game is because he has more of a "WORLD" view. And then some how thinks this world view is more justified than different views because his circular logic makes his thinking correct. It really is a very classic attitude of some people.

He is trying to say in that statement I do not have a world view. And it is only because I am a "Arogent American" that I do not implement what he desires. Hmm I  read and speak some Russian, have spent a fair amount of time in the Former Soviet Union and my Wife is also Russian.I have instigated economics, health care,political systems, how corruptions can become systemic in a political system to the extent bribes are simply a different way of paying a tax. Created a sim that is played in many different counties of the world. What do you think I may just possibly have a little bit of a world view? But a worldly view makes absolute no difference to this discussion.

And wow to reach so deep as to pull Politics into this debate with his "Rush Limbaugh/Glen Becks".

And what in the end is really funny is that I have spent more than 15 years coding, learning,creating ,making real world choices about flight sims, working, risking my money,implanting other peoples GOOD ideas, to create the most realistic representation of flying and dog fighting in a WWII fighter that I can do.  I have twice stared into the abyss of a completely 100% blank computer screen and come out with a marketable flight sim. I started creating sims slimply because I did not  like the accuracy of another flight sim, I  created a new one and brought it to market striving to create the most accuracy possible.   And stiglr is arrogant enough to not even pay me the respect that my view may be valid but different from what he wants out of a game.

For stiglr to even dare list his credential of one flight in a T6 as any form of knowledge as compared to other people in this forum shows how self severing and narcissistic stiglr really is. I have more time flying straight up in a plane then stiglr has time IN a small plane. And as compared to others I am involved with and with other people who are a part of this community I consider myself just out of the beginner stage off flying.

HiTech



Offline ghostdancer

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #175 on: September 06, 2009, 09:52:06 AM »
Let see we have people who actual military aviation experience commenting here. We have people with actual multiple hours of flight experience here. We have those who are citing actual combat reports and pilot experience of world war II.

Then we have stiglr who has said a pilot allowed him to fly a texan for a while.

As pointed out by people with experience actually flying military aircraft and other aircraft. Abuse of an engine from running at military level will not lead to a castarophic failure in minutes. The damage done to the engine accumulates over time and is dealt with by the ground crew. AH does not cover this aspect. Simply put spawn a plane and it is in best condition. Therefore unlike say the SW Pacific where you had maintence issues where you did not have spare parts or engines had to keep using the engine as long as you could basically you have a fresh engine here every time.

Therefore failure do to accumulate abuse or wear and tear on a engine does not happen in 15 minute to 30 minute window.

As people pointed out failure does not even occur normally in several hour window with a brand new engine or well maintained engine. The percentage change of failure increases over accumulated time do to wear and tear and pushing an engine past its limits. Or do to poor maintence, a difficult environment, etc. in combination with engine life conditions / usuage.

Aircraft in several theaters had plane performance degraded by maintence issues, environmental issues, lack of parts issues, etc. ... the Aleutians, Libya/Egypt, Greece, Malaya, Southwest Pacific, etc. are only a few areas where various aircraft did not perform to publish specs do to these issues affecting aircraft.

You also had production quality issues that some planes suffered .. most notable in late war Japanese planes. On paper their performance was impressive. In real life a few performed up to spec, many didn't because of poor production quality.

All of these issues are not modelled in AH. Instead you take up a plane and it performs like it just came from the factory. When you land you don't respawn in the same plane but respawn in a new plane. If you die you respawn in a new plane.

So in the MA most combat hops last what, 30 mins? Not hour. Not weeks. Not months.

Per those with actual hands on experience this issue will not cause instaneous degradation or degradation during a historical combat mission of a new plane or one that has been well maintained with not tons of performance hours on but could result in the ground crew cursing you out and having to rebuild your engine once you got home. Also pointed out by others the attitude was that planes can be replaced but an experience pilot can't be replaced quickly.

So actually what you would need for engine maintence to play a factor is:

1) Model production quality
2) Model the quality of how the crews that put planes together in the field. Malaya, Crete, Burma, China, etc. all had issues with receiving planes but then assembling them.
3) Modeling quality of the ground crew maintaining planes
4) Modeling the availability of spare parts
5) Modeling the affect of the environment (humidity in Pacific, cold in the Aleutians, sand in the dessert, etc.)
6) Modeling the actual operational life of an engine from first delivery to the point it is shot down. Meaning you would have to track how many hours your put into a specific plane.

At this point you can start talking about engine wear and tear since you factor in issues 1 - 5 then you can factor in engine performance hours.

But you would also then need to factor in other things logically. Such as if your engine needs to be overhauled then you can't fly for X time.

If you lose your plane you don't have to worry about the engine of that plane. If you die then you shouldn't be able to fly for X specific period of time.

But to some up the accumulated affects of engine wear and tear by running it full blast simple does not come into affect in the time period of a half hour. The longest missions we see are not in the MA but in special events where a person might being flying a plane for 1 hour to 2 hours.

So the arguement is silly since we don't model the issues I stated above.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 10:02:18 AM by ghostdancer »
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Offline Strip

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #176 on: September 06, 2009, 09:53:43 AM »
This thread isn't locked yet?

Offline ghostdancer

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #177 on: September 06, 2009, 09:57:19 AM »
Oh, and to carry the argument to extremes  I guess we should also model lack of sleep for pilots (this played a part at least for the pilots of Guadalcanal) and Malnutrition or lingering affects of illness to since this affect pilot performance on several fronts which impacted plane effectiveness.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #178 on: September 06, 2009, 10:01:42 AM »
Incorrect. History and fact show that pilots leaned out AND throttled back, both for fuel economy and to avoid needlessly taxing the engine. As I said before, REAL pilots have said that they saved the 100% setting for combat, when they really needed it.
AHHHHHHHH!!!!

You still don't understand.  The engines could be run at full power with no ill effect.  Any talk of adding an effect to reduce engine performance or break the engine in this context means you are trying to simulate WWII operational orders by implementing a gamey mechanic rather than simulating the hardware.

Yes, there needs to be some control to stop people from just using WEP endlessly, but what you are suggesting is more gamey than the solution HTC uses.

Further, why would you want to make the time to reach combat longer in a game that is focused on simulating combat?
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Engines runing full blast
« Reply #179 on: September 06, 2009, 10:04:39 AM »
The funniest thing about this thread is that it's not because of TW's engine modelling that people don't fly there.  It's because it's buggy as hell and their devoted fans are never online for you to fight them. :uhoh
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