109 torque initiated rolls

[Ardy123]

Agent,
Thank you for the detailed explanation. I think you have shown me some of this before. At the time we were just hanging the plane by the prop and then using the torque to roll it and drop down the nose down in a hammerhead like maneuver, but now I see how to connect that with a rolling scissors for the advantage.

 

[morfiend]

You might find this article useful.

http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule8.html

 For some reason I couldnt get this site to display!!

[Agent360]

 For some reason I couldnt get this site to display!!

I just checked and it comes up. Try again. The link is good.

[morfiend]

Thx agent,it was a prob on my end.....doh...cupid stomputers!


   

[boomerlu]

Yes yes yes......you have discovered it. This is how you control the turn at the top in very slow rolling scissors.

(rest cut out for space)

Wow, didn't realize the kind of mushing behavior was more desirable than pulling up and all the way over the top, but I can definitely see the application. It's a VERY fast nose down as compared to pulling over the top.

Since you are completely vertical (or nearly so), you can easily control the direction you come down by simply rolling the wings. You can roll in the vertical to place your lift vector opposite the bandit and then bunt the nose with full forward stick (controlling with rudder and throttle) to achieve a rapid nose down.

The second maneuver I described seems to be a variation on the falling leaf. It's a flat-spinning falling leaf with canopy down. The airplane's nose goes down slightly, the air flow hits the wings, and raises them back up a bit and to the side... this repeats... vaguely like a leaf falling.

I can actually get this fairly consistently, although it seems there's less combat application. It can certainly confuse your opponent though.

You might find this article useful.

http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule8.html

I really need to get some rudder pedals... twist rudder doesn't give near enough fine control.

[Ardy123]

Agent,
When I try to do this step..

Fourth, bring the plane to verticle at full power, before the power on stall pull the throttle off push the stick forward and then push the throttle to full power with full right rudder. The plane will magically glide over inverted.

the plane rolls several times before the nose drops down to a recoverable position. What am I doing wrong?

Also, it appears that I have to pull off throttle at the stall then gracefully bring the throttle back up so that the nose of the plane drops and rolls at a synchronized pace.  When I do this though the roll is not as fast.

Thanks

[Black Jack]

Agent, could u post a short film of how it looks like when done properly? You could even narrate it like you did before with previous films.  Tks

[boomerlu]

Agent,
When I try to do this step..
the plane rolls several times before the nose drops down to a recoverable position. What am I doing wrong?

Also, it appears that I have to pull off throttle at the stall then gracefully bring the throttle back up so that the nose of the plane drops and rolls at a synchronized pace.  When I do this though the roll is not as fast.

Thanks

Ardy, I'm not Agent, but I believe the idea here is more to familiarize yourself with the airplane behavior near stall in the vertical. I don't think there is one "exactly correct" version of this maneuver - rather a continuum that you have to learn to control for your own benefit. If you need to point more to the left for example, you would use more engine power. If you need to point down, but not straight down in the recovery, pop out some flaps... etc

[Agent360]

Agent,
When I try to do this step..
the plane rolls several times before the nose drops down to a recoverable position. What am I doing wrong?

Also, it appears that I have to pull off throttle at the stall then gracefully bring the throttle back up so that the nose of the plane drops and rolls at a synchronized pace.  When I do this though the roll is not as fast.

Thanks

You have found out how to handle it. You are correct.

[Agent360]

Ardy, I'm not Agent, but I believe the idea here is more to familiarize yourself with the airplane behavior near stall in the vertical. I don't think there is one "exactly correct" version of this maneuver - rather a continuum that you have to learn to control for your own benefit. If you need to point more to the left for example, you would use more engine power. If you need to point down, but not straight down in the recovery, pop out some flaps... etc

Yes, the drill is to teach how the plane handles in verticle stall.

Boomerlu has the point. 

[boomerlu]

I'm finding the throttle-off then throttle-on bunt for nose down to be incredibly useful. It lets you squeeze every last ounce of vertical out of your plane and then nose down in a hurry.

[Delirium]

This bump was for a very interested student in the Training Arena.

Apologies all.

[maddafinga]

Hell man, don't apologise Del, this was a great thread.  I, for one, found it very helpful for a couple of things.  I'm always very happy to see the good threads like this one crop up again.  I find that for myself at least I can usually learn something new out of re-reading stuff I thought I already had down.  Thanks for bumping it.

[Platano]

Agent I might need to kidnap you into the TA for some freshning up soon. 

[Bosco123]

I would most definetly join that group