why do all want the he111 or ju88 an not the..

[juzz]

The He111H was a great bomber in 1938: 22,000ft ceiling and 250mph top speed while carrying a 5,500lb bombload.  

[Kieren]

Duckwing-

Look, I don't want to sound like an He111 champion or anything but....

You may be right in saying that a real He111 couldn't reach that ceiling with a full bombload. Then again, neither could a B17G reach 38-40K, or the B26 reach 24K with a full bombload, yet these are pretty routine alts in AH. See what I mean? Further, I have a feeling it would be successful (more-or-less) in the same way the B26 is. We all know that once you get above a B26 the fight is over because the top turret won't deflect upwards enough. As long as you don't tail chase, there is little the B26 can do to you.

My only contention is that, based on the success of a more-or-less similar a/c, there is no reason not to include what was an historically significant bomber. Bring some in at 28K, drop your load and go (not circle over the base until fighters arrive) and it should survive. If you want the truth of it, that is the major reason IMHO most guys get it in the bombers; loitering over a target.  

[Pongo]

If you want to experiance the 111, take a c47 with troops and try to bomb the enemy HQ with them..You will get the idea real quick.


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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[Kieren]

No, don't believe this is a fair comparison at all.  

[bloom25]

Kieren, we have the b26B, not b26G.  The B has a top speed of 310 mph.    (I know, it seems funny, but it's true.  The reason, the G's wings were tilted back to improve low speed handling.)  BTW:  He 111  

bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[Minotaur]

Did the HE-177 have 4 engines, mounted on two nacelles with two engines each?

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
Trainer

[funked]

Yep, unfortunately for its pilots.  

[Kieren]

D'oh!

A little useless and redundant info snipped!

[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 03-08-2000).]

[bloom25]

I know, I know ... sorry, but I just HAD to post it.  (Maybe I needed more smileys.     )
(Truth be told, I was bored at work and had to post something.)
On second thought, why did I post that anyway, what does it have to do with this thread.   Hey, wait a minute, neither does this post...  

<--- Sneaks out of the room

bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[Mast]

I too would love to see the He-177A.  In the book, "The Luftwaffe Album: Fighters and bombers of the German air force 1933-1945", says that production ceased in September 1944, with some 1,146 He-177 had been built since January 1942.  I would first rather see the DO-17Z, Do-217E, and He-111H before the He-177A.

Mast

[funked]

Ju 88 served as level bomber, dive bomber, torpedo bomber, night fighter, day fighter, tank-killer, and probably some other roles I have forgotten.

In short it was one of the most versatile combat aircraft in history.

Since we don't seem to be getting a whole lot of bombers, doesn't it make sense to get one that can do a lot of jobs with different variants?

[Pongo]

With 20mm defensive armement the 117 would have a great survival chance in the game. It was a bit of a lemon but the game doesnt model that. Either the 88 or the 117 would be fine. The 117 has a tail gun and the 88 doenst...I would much rather take the 117.
My big concern about the 111 is its lack of armour and lack of defensive guns.  It will be fodder in this arena, probably in any post 40 scenario as well. I just think that Pyro has enough grief without having to read the posts that would follow its introduction. The complaints about the 117 would probably be in the (its too tough) catagory. A nice change for the bomber pilots

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[nonoht]

i vote for the He 177

it will be more playable than the He111, with many late fighters in the arena...
i don't know if a He111 could resist at an salvo of 6x .cal50.
and i wonder if He 111 gunners have any Line of sight for a good defense...(humm Mg34 gunner seems too weak)


   

GC III/2 "Alsace"

[This message has been edited by nonoht (edited 03-30-2000).]

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Kieren:
One possible reasoning for selecting He111 over the He177 would be Scenarios. It is a lot easier to build an historic scenario around the He111 than the He177.    

With current planes, it's actually out of time scale  
He-111 is so old against these very late war planes that uh oh...  

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Nimm2:
YEAAAAAAAHHHHHH HE177

The He 177 served as a five/six-seat heavy bomber from 1942 to 1945. The Greif (Griffin) was the only long-range heavy bomber built by the Luftwaffe in World War II in significant numbers. It was, to the good fortune of the Allies, one of the most trouble-plagued and accident-prone aircraft in existence, and the German crews and ground staff did not like it either. The plane was desgined to meet a mistaken and impossible goal of 1938 that not only demanded long range with heavy bomb load, and a speed of 335mph but also required the big bomber must be able to dive-bomb. This and many other difficulties caused great delay and added to the weight. The designers wanted to use neat remotely controlled guns but this was a big problem and eventually it had to be discarded in favor of the ordinary turrets or hand-aimed guns. Worse yet, it was decided to use four engines and pack them in two coupled pairs to reduce drag, so that the He 177 looked like a twin-engined aircraft. Although great efforts were made by Daimler-Benz to make the 2,950hp DB 610A twinned units work properly, they created numerous problems and caught fire so often that -- like an aircraft of World War I -- the big Heinkel was dubbed "the Flaming Coffin." In total more than 1,000 of many versions were built. Armed with various combinations of 20mm cannon, 13mm heavy machine guns and rifle-caliber guns, the He 177 carried up to 13,225lb of bombs or missiles, and in some types even went into action at "nought feet" as tank-busters carrying huge 50 or 75mm caliber. Late in the war some new versions, like the He 274 built in France and He 277 in Austria, had four separate engines; but they were too late to have any significant influence in the course of the war.
 

I wonder if it has anything to do with B-17   look at the tail