What to get: 2006 Z06 or 2006 911 S?

[Masherbrum]

Oh really.....is Ferrari interested in anything but F-1? Hell NO ! Is Porsche interested in American LeMans series, NO ! Not too many of the racing community is. CanAm road racing was the last true road racing venue that was worth a hill of beans. Not that being said the American LeMans series is growing but we will see just how big it gets.

F-1 and WRC is great to watch.    Nascar puts me to sleep,

[CAP1]

Oh really..... is Ferrari interested in anything but F-1? Hell NO ! Is Porsche interested in American LeMans series, NO ! Not too many of the racing community is. CanAm road racing was the last true road racing venue that was worth a hill of beans. Not that being said the American LeMans series is growing but we will see just how big it gets.

of COURSE porsche isn't interested in something that they couldn't win..........if they seriously thought they could dominate there, then they'd be running.

[BigPlay]

BigPlay, since you're leaning towards European cars.   Nix the Porsche and get a BMW Z4 and grab the Dinan Upgrade to a Z8.   It'll cost you $20,000ish for the "upgrade", but 461bhp on a Z4 platform is fun and I've been behind the wheel of one.   

Having owned a BMW I'll pass. I like US cars but have not been impressed with the reliability that I have gotten from them. Plus US cars and trucks are not cheap. The last time I went shopping for a truck I was going for the F-250 crew cab diesel. When I realized that this thing was approaching $50,000 I had to come back to earth and ask myself if I really wanted to pay 50K for a truck. I then looked at the F-150 crew cab.$35,000 was the sticker price for the stupid thing and
they wouldn't budge. I then went to the Toyota dealership and left the place 1 hour latter with a Tacoma crew cab out the door for $24,000. That truck is about 10 hp shy of the v-8 F-150 and is one of the best all around trucks I have owned. I would love to buy American but have never really been satisfied with the product.

[BigPlay]

of COURSE porsche isn't interested in something that they couldn't win..........if they seriously thought they could dominate there, then they'd be running.

Cap...... They are the LeMans king, can't you read? Other then the GT40 winning spree back in the late 60's there hasen't bee a US built car anywhere in sight. Why would Porsche put their effort in a small niche racing market. Non of the European manufactures even bother. That form of racing venue is mainly had BMW focusing on it not Porsche. Yes there are Porsche's racing there but it isn't where Porsche focuses it's development on.

[CAP1]

Having owned a BMW I'll pass. I like US cars but have not been impressed with the reliability that I have gotten from them. Plus US cars and trucks are not cheap. The last time I went shopping for a truck I was going for the F-250 crew cab diesel. When I realized that this thing was approaching $50,000 I had to come back to earth and ask myself if I really wanted to pay 50K for a truck. I then looked at the F-150 crew cab.$35,000 was the sticker price for the stupid thing and
they wouldn't budge. I then went to the Toyota dealership and left the place 1 hour latter with a Tacoma crew cab out the door for $24,000. That truck is about 10 hp shy of the v-8 F-150 and is one of the best all around trucks I have owned. I would love to buy American but have never really been satisfied with the product.

if you go with a ford deisel, be careful with the 7.3 turbodeisel. it tended to have some problems with wiring going through the valve cover gaskets to the injectors. they also had problems with the injector driver modules.

 other than that, incredible trucks.

[BigPlay]

You are the one that said long term cost of ownership of a Porsche would be less than a Corvette.  I was giving a simple example of why that cannot be true.  Brake job intervals for a Porsche almost mirror those of the Corvette.

While talking to Porsche, ask them about the engine rebuild schedule for any of their air cooled engines.  Yes, they do have to be rebuilt at specific mileage intervals or you risk destroying them.  Then ask how much that costs.  The Corvette will easily go passed about 2 air cooled Porsche engine rebuilds.

Scuzzy there not complete rebuilds and there are plenty of small shops that are much cheaper then the dealership. Long term ownership would include car depreciation and car longevity, that would include all the things around the powertrain . Suspension, cosmetics, seats gages and so on. These little things can and do add up on older US built cars or Cappy wouldn't have a busy shop.

[Die Hard]

of COURSE porsche isn't interested in something that they couldn't win..........if they seriously thought they could dominate there, then they'd be running.

Why enter the American Le Mans when they're already in the real thing, in Le Mans, France. And the hottest car to ever race at Le Mans was the Porsche 917. It was so awesome that it changed the rules of the race.


Porsche 917, 1970, 1,100 hp. 1,580 hp in qualifying tune. The 917 still holds the speed record on the Mulsanne straight.

[morfiend]

^^^

 Nice Die hard,that was 1 incredible car.I remember watching the 917's dominate everything back in the day,made my Dad get me a slot car set with the 917 in it.My uncle was none to happy tho,he was a bigwig at FoMoCo back then and was always trying to get me to use the GT40 instead of the 917......

  thx for the memories...

   

[Die Hard]

My pleasure

[BigPlay]

Why enter the American Le Mans when they're already in the real thing, in Le Mans, France. And the hottest car to ever race at Le Mans was the Porsche 917. It was so awesome that it changed the rules of the race.


Porsche 917, 1970, 1,100 hp. 1,580 hp in qualifying tune. The 917 still holds the speed record on the Mulsanne straight.


(Image removed from quote.)

I don't think Cap knows about the 917's or he wouldn't be commenting on how the Corvettes dominate Porsche in racing. But Le Mans to Cap is a car made by Pontiac not a race.

[Skuzzy]

Scuzzy there not complete rebuilts and there are plenty of small shops that are much cheaper then the dealership.

Yep, and there are plenty of small shops (far more than those that work on Porsche) who will work on the Corvette for far less than a GM dealership as well.

No matter how you slice it, long term costs of ownership for a Porsche will be higher than a Corvette.

It does not make either marque better than the other.  It is just simple economics.  Parts costs more for a Porsche.  Labor costs more.  It is the cost doing things with finesse versus a sledge hammer.

EDIT:  Between the 2009 Porsche 911 and the Corvette, the cars are expected to lose about 57% of their value over 5 years.  They are within a couple of percentage points of each other.  One day the Porsche is at 56% and the Corvette is at 58% and the next day it reverses.  It's a wash in terms of depreciation.  Of course the Porsche starts out at around $75,000 versus the Corvette's $50,000.

Out of pocket depreciation, the Porsche will cost quite a bit more.  Roughly $35,000 to the Corevette's $20,000.

[RTHolmes]

how does their depreciation compare in the US? (I suppose mpg and insurance also factor for TCO but not to such a degree)

[BigPlay]

how does their depreciation compare in the US? (I suppose mpg and insurance also factor for TCO but not to such a degree)

Corvettes being one of the most expensive cars to insure for the cost of the car.

[BigPlay]

Yep, and there are plenty of small shops (far more than those that work on Porsche) who will work on the Corvette for far less than a GM dealership as well.

No matter how you slice it, long term costs of ownership for a Porsche will be higher than a Corvette.

It does not make either marque better than the other.  It is just simple economics.  Parts costs more for a Porsche.  Labor costs more.  It is the cost doing things with finesse versus a sledge hammer.

2009 porsche 911

                 YEAR 1 YEAR 2 YEAR 3 YEAR 4 YEAR 5       5 YR TOTAL
Depreciation  $7,853 $7,041 $6,545 $6,351 $5,982       $33,772
Financing       $4,160 $3,360 $2,480 $1,558 $556         $12,114
Insurance       $1,938 $1,938 $1,938 $1,938 $1,938      $9,689
State Fees     N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Fuel             $2,135 $2,364 $2,618 $2,898 $3,209         $13,225
Maintenance   N/A $304 $1,728 $31 $1,476 $3,539
Repairs           N/A N/A N/A $734 $1,622 $2,356
Cost Per Year $16,086 $15,008 $15,309 $13,511 $14,782 $74,695

2009 corvette

Depreciation    $18,607 $8,547 $7,323 $8,586 $8,396 $51,459
Financing          $5,548 $4,482 $3,307 $2,078 $741 $16,156
Insurance         $2,437 $2,437 $2,437 $2,437 $2,437 $12,183
State Fees        $198 $155 $148 $134 $129 $764
Fuel                 $2,706 $2,996 $3,317 $3,673 $4,067 $16,759
Maintenance     $179 $219 $2,412 $650 $2,632 $6,093
Repairs N/A N/A $107 $231 $254 $592
Cost Per Year $29,674 $18,836 $19,051 $17,789 $18,655 $104,006


There is almost a $30,000 difference that proves my point. I would imagine that the amount increases  the older the car gets.

[Skuzzy]

Given the same variables (over 25 years of age, no accidents, daily driver...) Insurance for the Corvette is about $1600.00 per year.  For the Porsche 911, it is around $1900.00 per year.

It will vary between states.