Fix the 109(s) cockpits.

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

SkViper and Jigster

The effect you guys are talking about is called "linear perspective" basically parralel lines appear to merge at long  distances, this is used by the brain as a visual depth cue. The main point is that the effect happends over long distances. A 109 pilots head is only about a foot behind the windshiled thus the change in distance between the top and bottom of the slanting windshield glass is insufficient to produce the effect so drasically. As we have it now the 109s windshield view is correct in height but is far too narrow at the bottom. The supports should be seen as parallel at the short distance the pilots head is from the glass.
The way to correct thois is to straighten out the lines by pushing them outward at the bottom, so they are parallel. Also please just look at the b/w cockpit picture Nath put up, the camera is where the pilots head would be, and the lines are extremly close to 100% parallel.

Another point, Look at Nath's outside screenshot of the 109 canopy/windshield from the front, it still shows the bottom to be  narrower than the top. If HTC was modeling any type of depth perspective the top would be narrower than the bottom, since its slant puts it farther away from the cameras viewpoint. I can post a picture of a 109 canopy from this viewpoint if you want me to. The point is that lines the are fixed so that the bottom is narrower than the top, and this is incorrect.

Here is the photo, notice how the top actually appears narrower than the bottom. The same shot from AH shows the top wider and bottom narrower. AH 109 windshiled is incorrect.

 

What we have here is that HTC made a small mistake in not modeling the 109 windshield supports correctly, and it would great of them to fix it.

BTW Nath i did miss that last picture, prolly didnt load on my slow-ass connection
before i replied.  

thanks GRUNHERZ

[This message has been edited by GRUNHERZ (edited 11-17-2000).]

[Hooligan]

The AH picture is drawn covering a 90 degree arc from a single point of view.  What you are seeing is just a result of this.

As Jigster said:

It's called perspective.

Try this in an F4U Cockpit.  Move the view as far forward and backward as you can.  Note that the sides of the armored glass appear to be sloping inward at the top, or at the bottom or they apear parallel depending on where the view is.

Hooligan

[funked]

Looks like perspective to me.

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

Guys it cant be perspective look at the headon screenshot of the AH 109 windshield, the top is still wider than the bottom.
Compare that to the picture I posted of a RL 109 from the same viewpoint there the top is narrower than bottom. The simple fact is that the AH 109 canopy is designed so that the bottom part is narrower than the top.
This is incorrect they were parallel lines.

Also look at the amount of narrowing there is between the bottom and top of canopy lines in the pic i posted, that is from 10feet away and it is still less than we see in the inside view from only 1 foot away in the AH 109.

Basically the effect is innacurate and overdone, from 1 foot away inside the 109 cockpit the lines should be damn near parallel, not slanting so much that it obscures about 20% of frontal view.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[Rooster]

What it comes down to is that Nath is acting like a twit again.

[Eagler]

Splitting hairs. I fly the 109's more than anything. Like the power and speed, plus the looks and fscotts sounds.

You're probably a picky eater too  

The 109 is great as is. Don't fix what ain't broke.

Eagler

[Westy]

 It looks stupid and unrealistic straight down. Granted they could make them a tad more verticle but not by much.

 Oddly, I don't see Nath asking for the 109 cockpit head view/movement to be corrected. It's more than obvious that the AH 109 "pilot" sits too far back in the cockpit and has WAY too much room in that cockpit when using the AH view keys to move around the head around. If they change the verticle framing I hope they make the lack of room in a really claustrophobic cockpit more realistic too.

  -Westy


[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 11-17-2000).]

[juzz]

All the planes have overmodelled cockpit head movement.

Hmmm, anyone else think those two 45º support bars seem to be too small?

And no-one has mentioned the shape of the Me 109 wingtips, they look almost semi-circular, most odd...

[Andy Bush]

I think Grunherz has it right.

The current look seems to over-model the 'perspective' that some might think exists because of the slanted nature of the front windscreen (since the top is slanted back, the bottom would tend to have a smaller horizontal size). Also, the regular 'unzoomed' seat position seems to be too far back.


It seems to me that this depiction of 'perspective, given the short sight distance, is exaggerated.
 
In addition, the RL 109G glare shield is wider and not so angularly peaked. I think this adds to the somewhat distorted AH front view. Here's an idea of how it might be improved.

 

Andy

[SkViper]

I do like how Rooster said it.
The guy who is currently the number 7 pilot in the entire arena is complaining about the very plane he uses to get that high.

Also, as Westy indicated, he pays no mind to the fact that you can move your head side to side such that it seems to LEAVE the cockpit to provide you with at better view.

Perspective is not only the way the bars appear to angle, it is also your mind seeing things the way you want to see them.  

SkViper

[Starbird]

If you want to see the bars vertically, then you will have to move the windshield itself 90 degrees from the perepective the pilot is looking at.

Getting a true perspective on a 2d screen, with a 90 degree field of view is very difficult, as others have pointed out.

If you want the top of the dashboard to be rounded, that will mean adding more polygons, since it looks like only 1 is used for the top deck over the engine.

[SkViper]

Is this what you want to see Nath?
I moved each bar out 9° at the bottom.
Now the field of view is a little more open in the middle, but more close on the left and right.

 

SkViper

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

Andy and SkViper thx for those great edited screenshots thats exactly what the corrected support bars should look like. It looks just like the cockpit photos I have from inside 109. I hope HTC can spare some time and fix this for 1.05. Pleez.  

thanks GRUNHERZ


[This message has been edited by GRUNHERZ (edited 11-17-2000).]

[Nath-BDP]

no edited screenshots neccesary just look at this picture

 

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

Great picture Nath, it really shows the cockpit view well. I have several more just like it from various 109. I just hope HTC considers the evidence presented and takes some time to adress the issue in 105.

thanks GRUNHERZ