Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...

[SkyRock]

Wirble's are east to shoot out...  they are definitely not worth perking... I have upped tehm but now will take an osti before a wirb anytime....

[lyric1]

Next subject Wirbelwind gun sights.  
Yes sights Wirbelwind's & Ostwind's had two sights one for ground targets & one for aircraft.

A lot of people complain about they can't hit anything with this sight in AHII. All I can say is practice a lot & if what I am about to show comes to pass we may all have to practice some more.

First off the ground sight was called the Zielfernrohr 3x8deg Flack.

It looked like this.









It was mounted next to the sight for other anti aircraft guns a bit like this.



Also after doing a bit of digging Wirbelwind's were used in the ground war as shown in this below.
So yes they were used in this role & that should end any of the doubters on that issue.




When the crews entered the turrets of Wirbel's & Osti's they entered through a small flap that folded down. Then they would step up from the top of the tank & over in to the turret. That same space when left open is what was used by the gunner to shoot ground targets.

Now with the Wirbel & Osti for any one who has used these in game we only have one sight.  It makes sense to simplify the game as much as possible so one sight for all purposes makes sense.  

The AHII sight for the Wirbelwind is a square picture frame looking device when viewed while shooting. If you look at it in the film Viewer it is actually a rectangle shaped box. Just like the picture I posted above & shown a little closer below.









http://www.rzmilitaria.com/viewitem.php?id=10243


Only one problem with this site it was not put on the Wirbelwind.
When HTC slowed the rotation speed of the turret it was done with the information from this book I believe.

http://militarymodels.co.nz/2010/06/05/book-review-nuts-bolts-vol-13-flakpanzer-iv-wirbelwind-sd-kfz-1614-ostwind/

I don't have this book it was printed in 1999.
Since then they printed a new edition in 2010 that has more information & this one I do have.
 
http://www.michtoy.com/item-DSK-NB25-Nuts_and_Bolts_Vol._25__German_Flakpanzer_IV_Wirbelwind,_Ostwind_and_Kugelblitz.html

The sight that was put on the Wirbelwind was the Schwebekreisviser 38 not the Visierkopf 38 as shown above.

The Schwebekreisviser 38 sight looked like this.









The next few pictures are missing parts.





















This link describes how it worked.

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt09/german-aa-sight-30-38.html

I have looked at all the photos of Wirbels that I have that show a sight & they all show the same sight like the photo below.



Line drawings & profiles all show the same sight.





Question is did HTC pick the wrong site on purpose to make it easier to use in game?
Or did they confuse the name & number of the sight due to the German language & that the square sight was used on the same flack gun on other platforms?

Remember they used the book link above to slow the turret speed down & correctly so based off of the information in hand from that book.

Here is the page listing the sights used on the Wirbelwind.



Oh & just take note of the above page & read the part about aiming range & elevation.











HTC Wirbel only has +90 deg not the +100 deg listed.

[flatiron1]

Bring a bomb and quit whining.

[SkyRock]

Thanks lyric, that was informative!

[lyric1]

First off the ground sight was called the Zielfernrohr 3x8deg Flack.

 

Few more pictures I forgot to load earlier with the ground site.











Found these two from a Czech site that says this is what the view looked like.

[The Fury]

After being away for 3 years i can still get kills in a wirble pretty easy so yeah id say its still deadly, i still wont fly anywere near one too as they still slice my wings off easy enough.

[Volron]

Something tells me we may get the OST/WIRB updated soon...

[lyric1]

The AHII sight for the Wirbelwind is a square picture frame looking device when viewed while shooting. If you look at it in the film Viewer it is actually a rectangle shaped box. Just like the picture I posted above & shown a little closer below.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

http://www.rzmilitaria.com/viewitem.php?id=10243


 

Another link I found with pictures of the 38/40 sight I think used on the Wirbelwind in AHII.

On one picture you can see the actual lines on the lens of the sight.

http://www.leibstandart.com/reenact/3472/39457/

[Wolfala]

Its plenty of fun to me. Still pissing everyone off without much fuss.

[lyric1]

It would be even better if HTC would model it closer to its actual capabilities. The real Wirblewind couldn't fire a continuous stream from all four guns due to how they were loaded. The closest they could get was to alternate pairs (fire one pair while the other pair is reloaded).

And TBH it should apply to ALL guns (bomber guns included) that were reloaded in a similar fashion.

For those who don't know this is what Saxman is talking about.

[Tinkles]

Its plenty of fun to me. Still pissing everyone off without much fuss.

(Image removed from quote.)

1st Geez Lyric stop posting a book

2nd  The wirble is JUST FINE.  It is easy to disable, there are sometimes where I survive 1-2 tank hits and am like WTF I should've died. But hey, I won't complain. However, there are times I have only heard 3 pings from machine guns and gotten disabled. So it's a give and take.

However, the wirble is fine. There are quite a few ways of effectively killing a wirble. Just it isn't well known, and I am fine with that. (Considering I am a "pro" at using one  ).
Seriously though, there is nothing wrong with it, packs a punch.. relatively easy to destroy, strafe, shoot with tank, or bomb. All are easy. Although the strafing might get you killed more often than not.
So far, record is 19 kills in 1 sortie. Against rook horde of A119 , that didn't get the base by the way!

In the end, no wirble is fine.

And is NOT PERK WORTHY, PERIOD!!!!!!


Tinkles

 

[lyric1]

1st Geez Lyric stop posting a book


 

No. 

[USRanger]

Great info Lyric!  We appreciate you taking the time.

[lyric1]

Ostwind gun sight.

This has been hard to find out about due to the fact the only known photos with the sight showing is the prototype Ostwind. The hard part has been finding out what sight it is & the same book shows line drawings on the prototype that don't match the photos? There seems to be two sights that are typically used on the 37MM flack 43 gun. The one in the photos on the Ostwind is not a match from what I can tell by the images I have collected so far.

What we have in AHII for a sight is not a match either on any of the two types that I have found for the 37MM FLACK 43 & not for the prototype as well. The Ostwind had two sights as I mentioned in this thread as did the Wirbelwind. One for ground targets & one for air contacts. The ground sight is the same as the Wirbel & you can read all that from my prior posts.

So here are the pictures of the prototype Ostwind that show the sights. If viewing the turret from the front the air sight is on the left & the ground on the right.

The prototype was put in to action on the Western front & the results were good. They then made alterations to the production models & one of those was a slight change to the exterior,front,bottom portion of the turret. They added a couple of protrusions to deflect bullets away from the top of the tank as small arms fire was causing damage to the bearing surface that the turret needed to rotate.
 









The line drawings all show the same sight on the prototype & production here are those pictures.







I first tried to find other Flack Panzer's with similar gun sights as well as flack batteries using the 37MM flack 43 gun.

This is the flack Panzer called the Mobelwagen an earlier model prior to the Wirbel & Osti.
The third & fourth photos is the same sight on a fixed 37MM flack gun.









The above photo's shows a rather large bulky sight that had gears & switches with lead a tracking computer for air contacts & this is that same sight.























This is to bulky to be the same sight as in the Ostwind photos & have ruled this out for the prototype sight.

Next I found these three pictures with the same sight as the line drawings.







This clearly not on the Prototype Oswind photos but it is on the line drawings.
I found a web site that had some information on this gun sight that was from a captured Mobelwagen.










You look at the date & the information written on the images above this was to become the standard sight for the 37MM flack 43 gun?

Why would you place a primitive looking sight compared to the one with the computer on it? I don't know for sure & none of the books I have say why. For some reason the Wirbelwind & Ostwind regressed with sighting technology where the fixed gun sights for standard flack units did not seem to have this problem in obtaining the electronic sights. Was it that a rumbling tank was to harsh on a calibrated electronic computer?
I have no idea.
Did the German shortages hinder the production of those more modern sights? Your guess is as good as mine on that. Was the cost to high to place them on flack Panzers? All good questions that I don't have an answer for.
If any one can identify the Ostwind photos gun sight post it in here.

Still have other books on the way on this subject. The current book that most of this info is from is not much help on the Oswind gun sights unlike the Wirbel gun sights here is what it lists as the Ostwind sight.

[Slate]

  My favorite is the Chicks handling that enormous piece. I love picture books.