Author Topic: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...  (Read 28036 times)

Offline Chalenge

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15179
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #180 on: May 04, 2013, 03:40:53 PM »
I have noticed that the auto-ack at fields appear to be the same quad mount as the Wirbel, but in a ground mounting. Those guns do not seem to have a traverse issue, but it would be interesting to see what their traverse rate is.
If you like the Sick Puppy Custom Sound Pack the please consider contributing for future updates by sending a months dues to Hitech Creations for account "Chalenge." Every little bit helps.

Offline lyric1

  • Skinner Team
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10632
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #181 on: May 04, 2013, 05:10:22 PM »
I have noticed that the auto-ack at fields appear to be the same quad mount as the Wirbel, but in a ground mounting. Those guns do not seem to have a traverse issue, but it would be interesting to see what their traverse rate is.

Never thought of that. :headscratch:
Wonder how you could check that 360 degree turning rate time on the auto acks?
They do seem to spin faster than the rate in that link I posted.

Offline Chalenge

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15179
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #182 on: May 04, 2013, 06:07:32 PM »
I think you can use the offline arena tools to destroy all the guns except one, and then fly over it to check the traverse speed. The film viewer shot setup routines should allow you to place the camera so it is looking straight down on the gun, and from there you can time/calculate the traverse.
If you like the Sick Puppy Custom Sound Pack the please consider contributing for future updates by sending a months dues to Hitech Creations for account "Chalenge." Every little bit helps.

Offline Chalenge

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15179
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #183 on: May 10, 2013, 06:00:25 AM »
Tested it offline. In the film viewer the guns do not rotate, but the quads firing pattern in the air indicates an instantaneous transition.
If you like the Sick Puppy Custom Sound Pack the please consider contributing for future updates by sending a months dues to Hitech Creations for account "Chalenge." Every little bit helps.

Offline nooby52

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #184 on: May 10, 2013, 07:33:57 AM »
I have noticed that the auto-ack at fields appear to be the same quad mount as the Wirbel, but in a ground mounting. Those guns do not seem to have a traverse issue, but it would be interesting to see what their traverse rate is.

Well, I know they have no problem tracking my arse :cry

Flying as "South52" for VF-17 Jolly Rogers
17 Squadron - The Hardest Day Battle of Britain
204 Kokutai - Target Rabaul
610 Squadron -TFT Battle of Britain

Offline 68EZPkns

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 97
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #185 on: May 10, 2013, 12:48:59 PM »

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #186 on: May 10, 2013, 02:44:04 PM »
The Tirpitz wasnt moving.
Prince of Wales.

The Japanese twin engined bombers that dropped bombs on her were used no differently than a four engined bomber would have been.

Of course, the bombs didn't sink her, the torpedoes did.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline lyric1

  • Skinner Team
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10632
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #187 on: March 05, 2016, 04:40:12 PM »
Thought I would come back to revisit this thread with some new information I found on the Wirbel & Ostwind firing distances.

Seems that AHII German Flack Panzers are neutered compared to the data on these charts I found.








 

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #188 on: March 05, 2016, 05:07:39 PM »
The manned 37mm and the auto 20mm both seem to fire the full range. The mobile versions Hitech looks to have made the decision to cut that range in half. Probably a concession to game play.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline lyric1

  • Skinner Team
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10632
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #189 on: March 06, 2016, 05:28:17 AM »
The manned 37mm and the auto 20mm both seem to fire the full range. The mobile versions Hitech looks to have made the decision to cut that range in half. Probably a concession to game play.

It would seem strange to me that HTC would ignore data & just decide to randomly come up with something else. I have not seen that kind of Behaviour in the years I have played.

Offline Tumor

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4272
      • Wait For It
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #190 on: March 06, 2016, 08:39:31 AM »
Why in the world you you need a BETTER Wirb?  I can almost understand the Ost.. I can never hit anything with it.  Then again, I don't care because I'm not a big <Flak> Pansy.   :grin:
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline Saxman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9155
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #191 on: March 06, 2016, 11:35:16 AM »
The manned 37mm and the auto 20mm both seem to fire the full range. The mobile versions Hitech looks to have made the decision to cut that range in half. Probably a concession to game play.

It's a good concession considering the changes they made to the BENEFIT of the Wirble. IIRC, it was impossible to sustain fire from all four guns until you ran out of ammo because it was magazine-fed, and those magazines were hand-loaded. The only way to get a constant stream of fire was to only fire one pair of guns at a time, so the loader could swap out the magazines of the pair that wasn't currently firing. If the gunner fired all four guns at once he'd have to pause so they could be reloaded.

That's not a problem at all for our Wirble, which is a quad-barreled hose of death.

Why in the world you you need a BETTER Wirb?  I can almost understand the Ost.. I can never hit anything with it.  Then again, I don't care because I'm not a big <Flak> Pansy.   :grin:

The Wirble can have its historical range if HTC implements the reload limitation above.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #192 on: March 06, 2016, 01:19:40 PM »
And gives it the gunsight it was originally shipped with. Both osti and wribel. Then the player would need a key press equivalent to the target's speed knob to move the primary ring in and out from your eyepiece. That was the biggest weakness with this aiming system. Gunners ended up eyeballing it using the tracers because someone had to guess the speed of the target before moving the ring.

Schwebekreisvisier 30/38











But I guess as a game play concession Hitech gave us the less commonly used Flakvisier 35.





For direct fire that little telescope mounted next to the Schwebekreisvisier had this reticle pattern.





As for the Flakviseir 35 which Hitech mounted to the osti and Wirbel. Here is why I added range marks to the AH3 reticle: Analog correction controlled reticle.


 The Visier 35 is a projection type sight. It uses a light bulb to illuminate an image onto the sights glass image plate. When you look into the visor you see a illuminated sighting image. The gun sights accuracy is controlled by the Correction Box located on the port side of the gun. Sight & Correction Box are connected by a horizontal tube running starboard to port, linkages & connecting rods are connected to the elevation linkages controlling azimuth.





bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10444
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #193 on: March 06, 2016, 01:43:03 PM »
 IIRC all guns 30 mm and under have a set range before the bullet magically evaporates....

  This causes the wirb and the Mk103 30mm to not fire out to historic ranges,all guns over 30 mm usually fire very close to historic ranges.

  It may be a timed thing for the 30mm and under,I honestly dont remember whether it's distance or time that determines the range.

  I bet Mr Lusche could remind me and likely explain it better,complete with charts..... :devil


    :salute

Offline VuduVee

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
Re: Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...
« Reply #194 on: March 06, 2016, 03:11:58 PM »
yeah we need more hiders in wirbles.