Wirbelwind is no longer any fun...

[Ack-Ack]

Gee, I wonder why with all of the claims of the Spit XVI doing this not one single film has ever been taken of it doing anything remotely close to the claims?


You are both incompetent and a liar.

Exactly, no one has shown so far any evidence from in game that the Spitfire Mk XVI is modeled inaccurately. 


ack-ack

[Dinan]

Are you guys calling coronado a liar?   

[Karnak]

Are you guys calling coronado a liar?   

He bluntly lied, so yes.

[Oldman731]

He bluntly lied, so yes.

Pretty serious thing to say in most circumstances, including this one.  Might be more sensible to suggest that he was simply exaggerating (at worst).

- oldman

[stodd]

... after it was nerfed to the ground!

That's all.

[Karnak]

Pretty serious thing to say in most circumstances, including this one.  Might be more sensible to suggest that he was simply exaggerating (at worst).

- oldman

An exaggeration so extreme it no longer resembles the truth in the slightest is a blunt lie as I see it.

[Bruv119]

Since the powers that be caved to the vulch tards and pulled the teeth on the wirble, you would at least think they would make it alittle tougher. When one .50 cal round takes out the turret. However it takes multiple 20mm rounds from the wirble to take down an aluminum plane. The least they could do is make it harder to take out the turret. This is a bad change.

don't make me laugh.  I can just see HT's desk piled high with complaint letters  from "vulchers"  threatening to leave game if the Wirbel doesn't get made more historically correct.

Unless you have a Flak panzer in your backyard and you can tell me it did traverse that quickly you can drop the blatant biase you have on this change.

Get yourself some vehicle supps or better fighter cap.  Simples.

[smokey23]

Well bruv i just happen to be holding a technical manual for the Möbelwagen, Wirbelwind, Ostwind and Kugelblitz  printed by the Lodz ghetto printing house 1944 and it says right here  in plain english after translation that " The traverse and elevation of the turret was hydraulic, making a full elevation in little over 3.5 seconds, and a full traverse in 8.5 to 10.0 second". But i guess a technical manual dated 1944 and haveing to be translated from german to english is wrong . All this dribble about the turret being hand cranked is false. So wheres the bias?? I can back up my talk with facts can you??

[Bruv119]

does the new wirbel meet those specs?   

I'll get the stopwatch out when I get home.  Thanks for the information.

the bold text is what i took issue with.  The wirbel still has teeth it just can't swing around as fast! 

For the record I have no problem with the wirbel before or after.  Insinuating that HTC changed it due to people whining is absurd.

[batch]

Well bruv i just happen to be holding a technical manual for the Möbelwagen, Wirbelwind, Ostwind and Kugelblitz  printed by the Lodz ghetto printing house 1944 and it says right here  in plain english after translation that " The traverse and elevation of the turret was hydraulic, making a full elevation in little over 3.5 seconds, and a full traverse in 8.5 to 10.0 second". But i guess a technical manual dated 1944 and haveing to be translated from german to english is wrong . All this dribble about the turret being hand cranked is false. So wheres the bias?? I can back up my talk with facts can you??

while I obviously dont have your hand manual for review..... I can say that "historically accurate" is obviously being subjected by user opinion in this case...... I looked at countless sources and could not find one with a traverse rate listed...... I did however find nearly every source citing that it was a powered turret and used a handcranck as a backup .......... and I did see a few actual footage videos that show it traversing at a fairly good speed

also noted (for the fire rate whiners) the fire rate was very high and could be sustained for long periods of fire

[Lusche]

Well bruv i just happen to be holding a technical manual for the Möbelwagen, Wirbelwind, Ostwind and Kugelblitz  printed by the Lodz ghetto printing house 1944 and it says right here  in plain english after translation that " The traverse and elevation of the turret was hydraulic, making a full elevation in little over 3.5 seconds, and a full traverse in 8.5 to 10.0 second". But i guess a technical manual dated 1944 and haveing to be translated from german to english is wrong . All this dribble about the turret being hand cranked is false. So wheres the bias?? I can back up my talk with facts can you??

"The turret of the vehicle (...) was moved by the Flak and had no self drive. With the side traversing equipment of the Flak, a side traverse of 27°/s was possible. A hydraulic gear, built by DVL (...) was tested on a prototype and allowed a side traverse of 60°/s, but that gear was not used in the production vehicle"

(Detlev Terlisten: Flakpanzer IV Wirbelwind (Sd.Kfz.161/4) & Ostwind. in: Nuts & Bolts Vol. 13)

The above book is the most detailed description of the Wirbelwind & Ostwind Weapon Systems I have found so far, with a plethora of pictures both from war time as well as surviving Wirbelwinds (many closeup pictures of internal mechanisms and layout)



The gun rotation handwheel is even animated in Aces High

[batch]

after reviewing more sources........ still gonna say your book is wrong lusche.......... WW was indeed built with a hand crank...... as your picture clearly shows..... as all pictures show......... but it also had a drive motor place on the lower left front of the frame which drove the turret........ the handcrank was there for motor failure.....

however given that the book cited by smokey lists about a 10 second full rotation.......... and I just tested with stopwatch and our version has a 13 second rotation....... I have to say that its probably pretty accurate..... after all I doubt 3 seconds for a full rotation is going to make that big of a difference in a game

still couldnt find any sources that listed the speed....... but they do clearly show the motor and state that it was powered

some other vehicles using the PIV chasis (which is what the WW sits on) were actually fixed onto the turrets drive... although the WW is self powered....... the other variants using the PIVs turret drive I would assume would operate at its speed which is a full rotation in about 25 seconds......... which our version of PIV accurately reflects

[Lusche]

after reviewing more sources

Which ones?

[B4Buster]

I love the new traverse speed. I can do this now...

[uptown]

..... after all I doubt 3 seconds for a full rotation is going to make that big of a difference in a game

3 seconds can be a lifetime. How fast did the old whirbel make a complete rotation?