Kill Thieves

[DREDIOCK]

If you dont want your kill stolen. Dont play with your food.

If you get frustrated with over the shoulder shooters clearing your 12. Steer your plane into the bullets comming over your shoulder
Sends em to the tower every time.

Been seeing a lot of shouder shooters lately. Particularly of names I dont recognize. Been hearing a lot of friendlies exploding behind me lately too.

Names I know and trust. I give a free pass to.
The ones I dont I figure need to learn manners the hard way 

[R 105]

Low flying planes over a spawn spraying tanks with 303 with no hope of damaging it is kill stealing. Because the tanker that drove for half an hour to to get into position to shoots that enemy tank and kill it ends up with an assist while the plane that put 200 rounds of 303 on it gets the kill ain't that the same thing?

[Anodizer]

Don't know what some of you cats are talking about with how you don't see it often..  I see kill stealing in almost every sortie and many of them are the biggest complainers if it's done to them.. 
In fact, some of the people in this very thread..  

Also, it's so ignorant to think that the DA is some holy place where no one hoes, no one steals kills, no one hordes, etc.  Some of the most childish and retarded ways to the play the game are common place in the DA all day every day....  I get a laugh when you see people say that if you don't want to get horded or hoed or what ever, you should go to the DA..   lmao

[Guyver]

I have several opinions on this matter:

1) I view this as a team sport.......and a war.

2) In crowded...close proximity fighting.......nobody's got a claim... you kill whatever you can...however you can...so they don't kill your nearby team mates.

3) I don't give a flying freak about my score........never have never will.

4) Anyone who whines about "that was my kill" should get the hell out of the war ... and jump into the dueling forum.

5) If I'm working on some enemy for 4 minutes........and a guy on my team swoops in and finished him off.......I'll thank him.

i agree with every word. well said that man 

[Anaxogoras]

If you dont want your kill stolen. Dont play with your food.

This is unhelpful advice if you're flying an aircraft with a small ammunition clip.  For instance, after shooting off the rear fuselage of a bandit with 30mm, a guy in a Spitfire chased him down to the ground firing his 20mm and received credit for the kill.  Shooting until they pop is gratuitous.  How kills are awarded should be tied to critical damage to parts like wings and fuselages; not total damage distributed in small amounts all over the airframe.

[uptown]

can we agree that it's ok to shoot a flaming A6M, seeing as how they'll fly 7 sectors with fire coming from their butt?

[ACE]

I evaded the Yak, btw, with a simple series of rolls

You mean stick stiring? 

[PJ_Godzilla]

You mean stick stiring? 

You might call it that. I normally think of stick stirring as barrel rolling while maintaining altitude - here I was just rolling out of phase with the Yak.


Let me just pontificate a bit on the HO. Those who consider it somehow "less than" should consider that maybe, just maybe, there's something to be learned from ho'ing.

Consider Robert Shaw - he devotes a good deal of his book on air combat (the near-bible, for those unwashed enough to be unfamiliar) to the HO, how to combat it, and how best to deal with it.
I just don't understand this disqualification that many pilots - far better ones than novice I - reserve for an entirely legitimate learning opportunity. It was part of RL, it's part of the game, there are methods built around it. It's here, it's queer, get used to it.

Then again, maybe it's something like two chimps in a gym with revolvers and a bottle of tequila.

[PJ_Godzilla]

If you dont want your kill stolen. Dont play with your food.

Also, please, everyone: Wash your hands after you handle the meat.

[Shuffler]

Let me just pontificate a bit on the HO. Those who consider it somehow "less than" should consider that maybe, just maybe, there's something to be learned from ho'ing.

Consider Robert Shaw - he devotes a good deal of his book on air combat (the near-bible, for those unwashed enough to be unfamiliar) to the HO, how to combat it, and how best to deal with it.
I just don't understand this disqualification that many pilots - far better ones than novice I - reserve for an entirely legitimate learning opportunity. It was part of RL, it's part of the game, there are methods built around it. It's here, it's queer, get used to it.

In a game it is about competition. Nothing competitive about a HO. A HO is just one's way of saying he is not confident in his abilities and is not interested in improving them.

[SkyRock]

You might call it that. I normally think of stick stirring as barrel rolling while maintaining altitude - here I was just rolling out of phase with the Yak.


Let me just pontificate a bit on the HO. Those who consider it somehow "less than" should consider that maybe, just maybe, there's something to be learned from ho'ing.

Consider Robert Shaw - he devotes a good deal of his book on air combat (the near-bible, for those unwashed enough to be unfamiliar) to the HO, how to combat it, and how best to deal with it.
I just don't understand this disqualification that many pilots - far better ones than novice I - reserve for an entirely legitimate learning opportunity. It was part of RL, it's part of the game, there are methods built around it. It's here, it's queer, get used to it.

Then again, maybe it's something like two chimps in a gym with revolvers and a bottle of tequila.

You sound like you're not as good as you try to talk.....Here are some credible reasons to HO in AH:

some HO because it's a last ditch effort to kill the la7 that's going for the goon...
some HO because they are fighting 1 vs 4 and it's a last ditch effort to just stay alive...
some HO because it is the best shot on a set of bombers....

Here are some coward reasons and responses to HO:

...he was flying right at me.....
...they did it in WWII...
...when I HO and win, it helps my score....
...if you don't like it, go to the DA......

first of all, if you are a 'win the war at all cost' type of fella...nothing I say is going to make sense....but if you are a fighter type....then listen up...
a majority of the times people go for HO's on me, I simply set up my merge around their HO and kill them easily(if they stay and fight)....most just run, after HOing.....Many, many times in game, I see folks HO a 4 vs 1 because they want the kill that bad...lame really...who wants kills they don't fight for, unless they are some nancy boy herbert milktoast scoreboy cheesecake type?  There is no reason to go around HOing people that are dogfighting...if you want to fight, learn how, HOing is just not a smart move 1 vs 1...and it wastes time, if you get something damaged..because then you have to rtb, or bail out and start the flight back to the fight...it just doesn't make sense to HO, instead of learning how to increase your acm skills...the skills will give you much more fun than a 50-50 roll of the dice HO...just sayin....

[PJ_Godzilla]

In a game it is about competition. Nothing competitive about a HO. A HO is just one's way of saying he is not confident in his abilities and is not interested in improving them.

Perhaps, but not all HO's are created equal. Consider the following example - and, full disclosure: I know you're a good cartoon pilot. I was on your 6 once and couldn't close the deal. You later shot me down after I lost sight of you. I wasn't in my normal ride but it hardly mattered. You clearly know how to handle a 38.

1. You approach as if to ho but dive to put your lift vector on the approaching con as he passes just overhead. You fire prior to the downward break just to keep him honest.

2. An enemy is on a friendly 6 - both are approaching. You ho to bail out your buddy.

3. You're in a furball and take a snapshot that happens to be HO.

4. You approach a con ho but see that he's closing at sufficient speed that you can nose down, roll right, nose up and flat turn him to an overshoot, even though you risk receiving a snapshot

5. you ho right into the con's cockpit, guns blazing the whole way.

The issue is definitive. 5. is clearly a mindless HO. However, I'd rate 1-4 fair game. 3 reminds me of a lucky cowl-gun pilot kill I got one day in a furball. I look and there's a f6f crossing my path. I fired, cannons off. He died. I learned little about ACM or competition from that kill. Does that mean I shouldn't have fired?

In sum, the restriction just seems a bit arbitrary.

[PJ_Godzilla]

You sound like you're not as good as you try to talk.....Here are some credible reasons to HO in AH:

some HO because it's a last ditch effort to kill the la7 that's going for the goon...
some HO because they are fighting 1 vs 4 and it's a last ditch effort to just stay alive...
some HO because it is the best shot on a set of bombers....

Here are some coward reasons and responses to HO:

...he was flying right at me.....
...they did it in WWII...
...when I HO and win, it helps my score....
...if you don't like it, go to the DA......

first of all, if you are a 'win the war at all cost' type of fella...nothing I say is going to make sense....but if you are a fighter type....then listen up...
a majority of the times people go for HO's on me, I simply set up my merge around their HO and kill them easily(if they stay and fight)....most just run, after HOing.....Many, many times in game, I see folks HO a 4 vs 1 because they want the kill that bad...lame really...who wants kills they don't fight for, unless they are some nancy boy herbert milktoast scoreboy cheesecake type?  There is no reason to go around HOing people that are dogfighting...if you want to fight, learn how, HOing is just not a smart move 1 vs 1...and it wastes time, if you get something damaged..because then you have to rtb, or bail out and start the flight back to the fight...it just doesn't make sense to HO, instead of learning how to increase your acm skills...the skills will give you much more fun than a 50-50 roll of the dice HO...just sayin....

But that's the point. See my subsequent post. I qualified as "novice" btw. I've been doing this for a few months. I finally feel like I've got the hang of a D-9 and some feel for a 109.

I should add, flying a d-9 provides plenty of incentive to not HO - although I do remember fondly one occasion in which I took a chance on such a thing.

I had chased a 38 into a base that, naturally, was crawling with red. I was in my d-9, the 38 was smoking but looked likely to land. I had plenty of smash so I just put the nose down and ran out to sea. A con followed but was pretty far back. I knew he was unlikely to catch me. Still, he continued to follow. At a certain point, I said, wtf, reversed via loop and roll, and went at him guns blazing. He exploded. I want to say it was some guy called Devildawg.

I'd've gotten away cleanly, too, were it not for that golden BB in the rad. Now, were I in a P-47, maybe...

[SkyRock]

But that's the point. See my subsequent post. I qualified as "novice" btw. I've been doing this for a few months. I finally feel like I've got the hang of a D-9 and some feel for a 109.

I didn't mean to sound so nasty...it just came off as you were saying you were avoiding with rolls and stuff, but didnt really know what you were talking about...no major disrespect intended....

[PJ_Godzilla]

I didn't mean to sound so nasty...it just came off as you were saying you were avoiding with rolls and stuff, but didnt really know what you were talking about...no major disrespect intended....

None really taken. I do know something about the D-9 and it has all come hard. Rolling is the only way to avoid getting killed in that thing and rolling is the only way to get on a 6. You can't flat turn your way to stardom in a d-9. That's part of the reason I like it. I had to learn how to use the vertical. I suspect most of the 38 pilots have to deal with this as well. Anyway, I'll claim to be really good when I can barrel roll the d-9 for 1080 degrees with losing a foot of altitude or my compass heading.

My other goal with that plane: learning how to not get killed when I don't have any alt and am at less than 275 IAS. Life's hard when I'm caught low and slow.