Author Topic: 3d P-47 model (Read 1996 times)

Sundog · « **Reply #45 on:** February 16, 2001, 09:58:00 AM »

OK, not to through a 'wrench' into this fine thread

, but I am just now starting to learn 3DSMax (I got a deal on it, didn't pay anywhere near full price

). Having said that, I have a lot of questions I hope you guys wouldn't mind answering. BTW, <S!> Sancho on that P-47, I am enjoying watching your progress on it as well! Voss, that Rendering of the P-51 reflection on the skin of the other is awesome! In fact, that is how good I want to eventually get at this. So, on to my questions.

1) How do I want to model aircraft in 3D? Do I want to use meshs, NURBS, Something else?

2) Should I use POV for rendering (Getting way ahead of myself here, as I haven't constructed the model yet)?

Basically, I am looking for any advice you can give a newbie at this that might make my mistakes a little less painful when they happen. I am planning on modeling a Ki-61, as I have some nice 3 view drawings of this plane I found online that give a lot of detail information.

I would also like to know if it is OK if I e-mail you guys (Voss, Jay, Sancho) individually for tips or hints? Or maybe you guys know of a good generic '3D Modeling' BB for aviation.

Really enjoying this thread though. Thanks and regards to all of you.

Note: Hey, Voss, could you e-mail me a small pic of your P-51 rendered? I would really like to see it. I promise not to post it or distribute it. Either way, thanks for all the info.

------------------
Sundog
VMF-111 Devildogs
'Criticism is always easier then craftmanship.'

[This message has been edited by Sundog (edited 02-16-2001).]

Jay_76 · « **Reply #46 on:** February 16, 2001, 11:31:00 AM »

Sundog,

IMHO, you're always better off using the renderer for your software first. 3DS is a very popular piece of software which is very powerful in the right hands. You'll get raytraced output if rendered in POVray, but if you're rendering more than a single frame (i.e. animation) the amount of time it'll take to render it all for a minimal improvement in the final vid (IMHO) I'd suggest you stick with the 3DStudio rendering. Shucks, the reason people mainly use POV (or Blender for that matter) is that its free... if they could get their hands on a copy of LW or 3DS we wouldn't have half the users of either. The truly dedicated (and I think I count Voss among 'em) will stick it out when they recognize its power, and esp. when they can make best use of that. I still think FMV can be done to POVray standards without raytracing, but it means high framerates and motion blur, both of which 3DS can help you with...

I can't remember if 3DS exports to POV or not, either... but there's ways around that.

Anyhoo, enough preaching, I'm finding webspace...

[edit]
also, whilst I ponder it... I'm interested in seeing if those of us interested in this kind of work (modelling in general) don't wanna exchange ICQ numbers too, for tips and questions. I sure don't mind getting tips on texturing from POV users, thats for sure... *grin* Mine's 112214.

Jay.

[This message has been edited by Jay_76 (edited 02-16-2001).]

Voss · « **Reply #47 on:** February 16, 2001, 02:29:00 PM »

Hmm, I'm wondering if we should continue to post in A&V, or ask that HTC add another forum? I am sure there are more then just the four of us doing modelling.

Sundog, you can email me at voss@13thtas.com as can anyone truly interested in modelling/rendering/ray-tracing. I have ICQ (75865381), but I only use it for large file transfers. So, if you want me on you'll have to email me.

Hmm, the only image I have created of my latest P-51 is not a complete model. Rather, then go into a long-winded explanation of why, I'll just say it'll be finished soon.

I don't mind sharing, but you'll have to wait.

3DS is an awesome system. I have played around with it myself, but would rather use the money for computer upgrades and flying. I think you can use nurbs, but definately meshes. As long as you can export to 3DS, or DXF format you'll be okay. If, HTC goes to the trouble of creating a modelling forum, I'll spend some time creating a basic modelling tutorial (geared toward TrueSpace, but applicable to all approaches I think).

Use 3DS' rendering tools, until you are satisfied everything is working just right. Your textures will not transfer to Pov, though (save image_maps), so only spend time on textures in 3DS if you intend to make animations/stills with it. Skill with 3DS is mandatory for the gaming industry (modellers), so this is good experience.

If you intend to use POV for rendering be prepared for a second learning curve. Again, a tutorial will help.

Pov-Ray supports a newsgroup for users of Pov. There are aircraft modellers on there, but for the most part aircraft posts are lost in the flood of users. I can just about guaranteee that I can get a few of the Pov users to swing over here if we have a forum for modelling/rendering. A few of them have already expressed an interest in the Terrain Editor and map making.

As, I said before, I will post an image of my 51 once it is complete. I bet that I'll get accused of using a photo.

Voss
...-.-

Jay_76 · « **Reply #48 on:** February 16, 2001, 09:16:00 PM »

Well,

here's my contribution, bearing in mind I'm a newbie to Blender: BUT it took me an afternoon to learn all the concepts needed to do this half-right (the model that is) and then I played with it with the concepts I already had in blender. You'll need DivX to see the video...

Valid stats: Each frame rendered (400X300, using the unified renderer) at about 7 secs apiece. The regular renderer does almost as nice at ~4 secs.

The vid can be accessed here... The audio sucks... I have lost usage of DivX's excellent MP3-style audio compression so I had to downsample badly to get an indicative filesize.

I have another Blender-user finishing up his own contribution to this for reference.

Anyhoo... thoughts? Can we see yours again Voss?

Jay.

[This message has been edited by Jay_76 (edited 02-16-2001).]

Sundog · « **Reply #49 on:** February 16, 2001, 10:40:00 PM »

Thanks guys! My ICQ is 8297341. A Aircraft/Modeling forum here would be excellent! Maybe we could get Natedog and Superfly to share some tips as well!

------------------
Sundog
VMF-111 Devildogs
'Criticism is always easier then craftmanship.'

Melvil · « **Reply #50 on:** February 16, 2001, 10:43:00 PM »

Hey everyone. I'm the one Jay mentioned.

I'm going to talk a bit and put up my wrench sometime soon, but first it looks like I have quite a bit of reading to do. =P

-Melvil

BTW Voss, could I take a look at your wrench?

I just finished reading this thread, but theres not much I coul say that hasen't already been said. At that, I will finish up my wrench and be back tommorow. G'night!

[This message has been edited by Melvil (edited 02-16-2001).]

Voss · « **Reply #51 on:** February 16, 2001, 11:18:00 PM »

Nice to meet you, Melvil!

I don't mind at all, Jay.

I tried to install the DivX codec. Maybe, because I haven't rebooted yet, it isn't working. I'll try again after I post this.

The following is a full radiosity (1600 count) rendering with aliasing set very low (.03). Any more information then that will only get confusing.

Render time was closing in on five hours! Coding the object (no modeller used; this is pure Pov) took a mere five minutes.

Removing the radiosity section of the code results in render times of just 5 mins, at 800x600, and 1 min. 12secs. at 400x300. Further speed enhancements could be obtained by eliminating things like variable reflectivity (angle-dependant) and area lighting. Further, using a black background rather then foreground flooring and walls would help, too.

Hmm, didn't think to try an animation.

<edit>
Oops, forgot to use the image tags

</edit>

[This message has been edited by Voss (edited 02-16-2001).]

Voss · « **Reply #52 on:** February 16, 2001, 11:38:00 PM »

Jay, the codec installed fine. Yet, Media Player is having trouble playing your animation. The system reports that the codec may not be installed. Adobe Premiere has the same problem. Now I'm all bummed out.

<edit> After looking into this the best I could I am beginning to think there is an error in the file. I tried a few conversion routines and they all reported an error. The audio section seems fine, and I can determine that the video is 400x300 at 20fps. That's the extent of it though.
</edit>

[This message has been edited by Voss (edited 02-17-2001).]

Voss · « **Reply #53 on:** February 17, 2001, 01:33:00 AM »

To demonstrate a feature of MegaPov that I have mentioned here is a prop with, and without motion blur. The prop is a naive attempt at the cuffed Hamilton Standard. The prop in motion is rotating at 2600 rpm and is rendered approximately as a human would perceive it (a single sample at ~32fps).

In creating this you would model the prop and then texture it. Instantiating it within a motion blur statement as:

motion_blur { object { Prop } rotate z*clock*2600 }

Where 2600 is the number of revolutions per minute, z the axis of interest, and clock the current time value (an animation variable). I set the MB instance at 32 samples and 1/32 as the fraction of time (i.e. "motion_blur 32,1/32" within the global block).

Render time is less then 1 minute in this simple scene, but blurs of this nature can really slow down a render.

Jay_76 · « **Reply #54 on:** February 17, 2001, 03:13:00 AM »

Voss!

I've talked a lot of ppl thru a DivX install... and I'm assuming you're using Windows 98 or thereabouts. DivX needs to be installed, then you go to the program Group on the Start menu it creates and click the "run me first" thingie, and THEN reboot. After that, all should be well. Be sure to use the DivX 3.11 alpha for Windows, of course. I assure you it's not the file.

The black background in the single pic I posted makes more sense in the vid... you'll see why. You'll also see my junk open end and badly lit box end.

320 pics for the wrench in Blender came out to less than 45 minutes rendering time IIRC.

Anyhoo...
Re- motion blur. I like using it, but thats one place where Blender will take a lot more time to render a single frame... I guess thats the same whereever you go.

*S* and regards,

Jay.

Voss · « **Reply #55 on:** February 17, 2001, 09:55:00 AM »

Yeah, I followed the instructions and it is installed. It just won't play the flic.

The audio came through fine.

Sancho · « **Reply #56 on:** February 17, 2001, 10:32:00 AM »

I like that motion blur effect on the prop! I've been trying to do something like that in standard POV (using while loops with variable transparency on repeating prop blade) but haven't been very successful. Do you know if there is a Linux binary of MegaPOV available?

On the subject of a dedicated aircraft modeling forum, such a beast already exists, although I have not made much use of it yet (since I've had such expert help here

). Head over to Targetware's UBB to check it out. It's dedicated to making models for use in TargetWare's upcoming sim, but there should be some crazy airplane modeling nuts there eager to help others.

I don't use ICQ, but if somebody wants to e-mail me, my address is sancho at jump dot net. Keep in mind the extent of my 3d modeling experience is as old as this thread.

[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 02-19-2001).]

Jay_76 · « **Reply #57 on:** February 17, 2001, 12:18:00 PM »

That's weird Voss, I'd swear you were using a Mac if it won't play. The Run Me First thing is the step most people miss, followed by the reboot. You could try downloading again to see if the vid is messed up, OR you could use Netscape to open the vid directly and try playing thru something other than WinMediaPlayer. I'd suggest GDivX, freeware DivX vidplayer. For that matter, right click-> properties and then Preview the movie from the WinShell.

I'm getting lots of confirms from other people that the vid is fine... What's your Win OS?

Jay

[This message has been edited by Jay_76 (edited 02-17-2001).]

Sundog · « **Reply #58 on:** February 17, 2001, 02:01:00 PM »

Hi guys!
Here are a couple of threads, that if you don't already have them, you will probably enjoy them.

Luft '46 art

Japanese '46 art

SD

Jay_76 · « **Reply #59 on:** February 17, 2001, 02:38:00 PM »

Good links sundog!!

*S* and regards,

Jay.