P-38 kill ratio...out of whack.

[mtnman]

Lusche, I get that. but this is less about good sticks, as it is about good sticks using a the same move over and over. Well it seems to me, because that's how I keep getting whacked. So I'm posting this to see if others experiencing same one trick death, or I'm the only guy who can't figure out how not get roped by a good 38 pilot.

For starters, look for two things to help you decide whether the guy going vertical in front of you is making a mistake, or whether he's roping you.

One, the icon counter is a "trap" when it comes to judging E-state.  Yes, in a very basic sense, "+" means you're getting closer to him, and "-" means you're falling behind.  But, "getting closer" doesn't mean you're faster, have more E, or can catch him if he goes vertical.  Likewise, the P38 pilot seeing a "+" doesn't mean he's going to be successful with the rope either.

You've got to figure out why you're seeing the "+" or "-".  For example, I can have you behind me, and let you see a "-" just by turning to the right or left slightly, and allowing you to "cut across the inside corner" of my turn.  I can actually be faster than you, and have you see the "-" because you're getting closer to me.  Now, I go vertical, and you follow me up...  Who's still faster?  Who's gonna stall first?

It's even more misleading if I tighten my turn enough to get you coming from about my 4 O'clock.  You'll be getting closer to me very quickly, even if you're far to slow to follow me vertical...

The second thing to watch for is "how" he goes vertical.  Is it done in a manner that allows you (the pursuer) to "cut across the corner" again?  If yes, it's probably not a rope, or at least a very well planned rope.  If he does that, you may very well catch him, even if he's faster than you...

On the other hand, if he goes vertical in a less-abrupt manner, that doesn't allow you to "cut across the inside corner", but rather forces you to fly very close to his own flight path, look out!  He's taking you vertical in a careful, planned manner...  Guess what comes next?

[TequilaChaser]

...and I want to learn how to kill them when they do it.  

ok here is a short simple example..........like my fight last night...the 1st time the Ta152 went vertical on me, I knew without a doubt I could not follow him.so I did a very shallow nose above horizon climb...

when he rolled over/in on me I did a break turn showing him a side profile view of my plane , being 90deg to him, yet puling enough he could not follow with his speed he was carrying.....I leveled out.he flew by and went to go vertical again........having kept my speed up by not climbing the 1st time.the second time I began to follow him up.but I did not let my "maneuvering speed" drop below the minimal I thought I needed incase I needed to evade his attack again.but this time as I was climbing up his "six" I FAKED a STALL.....I purposely wobbled....this cuased the ta152 flyer to immediatly roll over and dive on me again.this time when he overshot I rolled right in on his six.......

he dove down since I was on his tail.then here comes the P38L slightly higher than both of us diving in on my 6 roughly 2.5k back

this time I was 1.5K off the ta152....... when he went to drag me vertical this time I watched him as his counter began to come back to me...also watching the P38L as his counter was getting closer...... they both stalled nearly at the same time, I had a slight E advantage left.....

I smoked the ta152 engine.he began to flail abit. I rolled inverted and smacked the P38L as he was in a flat stall trying to get his nose down smoking his engine......

so learn to read the E- State and also learn to recognize when someone is trying to rope you, then when the time is right "Show Em The FAKE Stall or Wobble ya wings"......

hope that helps.......

[Strip]

There is a reason the Germans called them "Forked-Tailed Devil"

[BnZs]

I just tried to do the zoom test with the RV8...very crude because the ASI does not go up to 400, so I was using the E6B as my indicator, didn't quite get it up to 400 in the dive before I got to the deck and began the zoom, too many Gs on the pullup...but anyway, I still got 5000 feet out of the thing before stalling, as compared to ~6K-7K you get out of the WWII bird. Which is interesting, to me at least.

[warhed]

There is a reason the Germans called them "Forked-Tailed Devil"

Do a little research on that, and you might find it hard to ever find a source that agrees with that 

[daddog]

I thought it was the Japanese that called the 38 'The Fork Tailed Devil'. I also thought the 38 faired worse in Europe than in the Pacific.

[Strip]

Der Gabelschwanz Teufel

"The Forked-Tail Devil."

[Shuffler]

Wow.... 8.0

Mine is quite a bit lower than that since most of my fights are below 5k and many below 1k.


I don't put much into ratios or scores. All can be manipulated by staying away from red dar bars. In doing so you won't really know if your getting better or not.

Now if you get down and dirty in the middle of fights and your k/d stays decent... then you can say your improving or holding your own.

In the end... no matter what you do at some time or another your going to get shot down. I do fairly often. To the point that usually my bird has that "New Plane" smell.  

<edit>

PS I fly single throttle

[warhed]

As far as I've ever been able to tell, neither of them called it that.  Although a Popular Science (I believe) article in 43 or 44 did claim the Germans called it by that name.  

[Strip]

You haven't read very far then....

[warhed]

Show me one source that shows it was common (or at all) for the Luftwaffe to call it that.

[VonMessa]

I think most would agree that pulling vertical with a bandit on your tail is usually a rookie move that will get you killed. The first guy vertical will slow down first creating closure for the bandit. It's what makes the success of this move so unusual. I'm with VonMessa that many must be mis-judging the speed of the 38. but why do so many mis-judge the speed? granted it's a big plane, but more often than not, I'm using the distance in the plane Icon to judge whether I'm gaining or flling behind a bandit.

Don't confuse speed and E

[Chalenge]

Der Gabelschwanz Teufel

"The Forked-Tail Devil."

Thats a misquote... they were calling it 'Pork on the Table' (Schwein auf dem Tisch). Sounds similar to Yankees.  

[Westy]

"...pulling vertical with a bandit on your tail is usually a rookie move that will get you killed. "


Only if, and I'll repeat it,  ONLY IF you forget to hit the brakes and make them fly right on by.

[Anaxogoras]

From what I understand, the main contributor to the 38's troubles in the ETO was its pilots freezing their arse's off at high altitudes.  Even though it is just as cold at high altitudes in other parts of the world, the operational altitudes tended to be lower.