Updated ENY values for Planes

[Anaxogoras]

There's humor in the fact that in the effort to 'defend' the 51D from it's low ENY, BnZ has more or less resorted to trashing the plane. The way he makes it sound makes one wonder just what the hell the Luftwaffe was afraid of in the skies over Europe during 44/45. They must have been a sorry lot of pilots to fare so badly against such a mediocre plane. 

True,  but BnZs is consistent in maintaining that the P-51D isn't a great fighter.  He has held this position long before ENY was adjusted.

[Crash Orange]

Far and away the best, and simplest, method to determine and aircraft's value is to let the market decide.  The market is the player base and the decision is which aircraft they choose to fly.  It is not perfect, but it is far better than any sort of personal bias filled "ability of the aircraft" number that anyone comes up with.

The knowledge that informs the "market" is imperfect in the extreme and the choices made by players are frequently irrational. Rational, informed choices in such a technical matter depend on expert knowledge and there's no efficient way for the knowledge of the experts to be disseminated to the bulk of consumers because most of them don't read the forums. Markets don't work well in situations like that.

That's why, for instance, how a bridge is built is determined by a few expert engineers rather than taking a poll among all the people who'll be using it. The role of the market in such cases is ony to ratify the general way in which decisions get made by, in the case of public works, voting for or against the people who picked the experts or, in this case, by deciding whether AH2 is the best value for the consumers' money.

Basing ENY on popularity does very little and nothing whatsoever, respectively, to advance the stated purposes: persuading players to switch sides to balance numbers and putting a handicap on those who remain with the much more numerous side. You can see the results of this as often as not in the MAs.

[Karnak]

Anaxogoras,

In your charts, what fuel and ordnance does it use?  It looks to me like the Mosquito is heavily under performing in the low altitude climb charts.  If you are using full fuel, it wouldn't really represent the MA where aircraft like the P-51s, Mosquito, Ta152, P-47N and A6Ms rarely carry full fuel.

Crash Orange,

The experts for AH are HiTech and Pyro, but people refuse to accept their numbers.  Where does that leave it?

[Anaxogoras]

75%, IIRC.  But the Mosquito really does climb like poopoo.

[boomerlu]

There's humor in the fact that in the effort to 'defend' the 51D from it's low ENY, BnZ has more or less resorted to trashing the plane. The way he makes it sound makes one wonder just what the hell the Luftwaffe was afraid of in the skies over Europe during 44/45. They must have been a sorry lot of pilots to fare so badly against such a mediocre plane.  

The fact that the LW was heavily outnumbered. Also they lost a lot of experienced pilots so there were a lot of newbies for the LW.

I have the same opinion of the 51 - it's FAR from an uber plane. It's not bad, but give me a D9 for BnZ and a K4 for energy fighting any day.

Also you have to look at it in comparison to the La7 which had its ENY raised?! La7 is faster on the deck, turns better, accelerates better, climbs better, and has a better guns package...

Pony has... better range, high alt performance, and views...

[Karnak]

75%, IIRC.  But the Mosquito really does climb like poopoo.

Hmm.  At 50%, my normal load and using WEP, it climbs at better than 3,500fpm initially.  I wonder how many people take 75% fuel on these extremely long ranged fighters?

Also you have to look at it in comparison to the La7 which had its ENY raised?! La7 is faster on the deck, turns better, accelerates better, climbs better, and has a better guns package...

Pony has... better range, high alt performance, and views...

Better ballistics, better ordnance.

[Crash Orange]

The experts for AH are HiTech and Pyro, but people refuse to accept their numbers.  Where does that leave it?

I don't think disputing the numbers in the forums constitutes rejection in this context. If people stay in the game, they're accepting the numbers. If they leave, they're rejecting them. A less severe form of rejection might be players boycotting a plane they feel is incorrectly rated, but the bulk of the player base isn't nearly coordinated or well-informed to do that.

[boomerlu]

Better ballistics, better ordnance.

Point taken. Still, can you argue based on these things that it was necessary to essentially exchange the ENY values between LA7 and P51?

[Karnak]

Point taken. Still, can you argue based on these things that it was necessary to essentially exchange the ENY values between LA7 and P51?

It is pretty clear that change was made based on respective usage and the P-51D gets close to twice the usage the La-7 does.

[RufusLeaking]

9 pages of replies and no mention of the C.205 or the P-40E.

C.205 now 25 was 20,
P-40E now 35 was 30.

Both seem reasonable.  

I would like to hear the official rationale for all of the changes.  It is probably an attempt to encourage a wider diversity in the LW.  It also changes the perks earned, but that doesn't seem like a good reason in itself for the changes.

[Anaxogoras]

[Karnak]

(Image removed from quote.)

So far as I can tell, that chart was from when the Mosquito was a bomber and is with 100% fuel and 2,000lbs of bombs.

[Gabriel]

The fact that the LW was heavily outnumbered. Also they lost a lot of experienced pilots so there were a lot of newbies for the LW.

And the fact that the 51 was fast, performed great at alt, had long range,  good roll and good guns, control at high speeds, etc.

It was a good plane. That the Luftwaffe was outnumbered , that was a product of production, it was also a product of  that whole 'getting shot down' thing.

[boomerlu]

It is pretty clear that change was made based on respective usage and the P-51D gets close to twice the usage the La-7 does.

Yeah I understand, doesn't mean it reflects the planes' relative strengths.

[RTHolmes]

Yeah I understand, doesn't mean it reflects the planes' relative strengths.

well popularity pretty much equates to overall effectivess in the MA, so theyre almost the same thing. very different from in a 1v1 duelling context which some posters seem to take as the basis for comparison.