Updated ENY values for Planes

[Karnak]

Yes, but the P-51D's '44 performance is a good deal worse than the SpitXVI's '44 performance. You yourself said the P-51D was under-engined by '43 standards. By the same token the SpitXVI's thrust/weight looks rather good stacked alongside the various '45 rides.

That has nothing to do with the comment I was replying to.  Both the P-51D and Spitfire Mk XVI in AH are running on 100 octane fuel, and both were running on 150 octane fuel by late 1944 in reality.  So your comment that our P-51D is not performing like a late WWII P-51D, implying that it should be higher performance compared to things like the Mk XVI, when in fact the other fighters are in some cases just as "impaired".  If the P-51K (basically a P-51D built in Texas as I recall) were added with 150 octane fuel it would need to be perked, but I think that would actually be a pretty nice addition to the P-51 lineup.

The reason the P-51D is underpowered as a pure fighter for 1943 is simply a matter of weight.  It has the same power and half again the weight of a Spitfire Mk VIII, thus it is underpowered as a pure fighter in 1943 terms.   In compensation it brings other things to the table that the Spitfire, Bf109, Fw190, La-5 and Yak do not, primarily long range.  Thus the P-51 can be considered underpowered for a pure fighter, but very good for an escort fighter as an escort fighter will always weigh more than a pure fighter.

[maddafinga]

1) We can also fly single very well thank you. We do not require the horde to roll the low number side. As it would be if we were "stuck" on a single side.

2) Seems to be what your saying.

3) Weak ponts? Trying to avoid the fight by bringing the "concentration of power"(horde) to a weak point


There are many folks I know of that look for the fight and are not married to any side.
You say you like to capture and that furballers do not help you at all... sounds like your the one that does no one a favor except yourself.

Capturing bases serves no purpose. All that happens is a terrain is changed. In the end if you have fun doing what you do then you have won.

Actually Shuf, we are furballers only.  If you look at our score, you'll not find a single base capture.  Ever. 

I think a lot of the guys who switch really do so in order to even things up and have good fights, I really do.  And I have nothing but respect for you guys in the 80th, you guys play the game the way I feel it ought to be played.  (I'm sure that most, if not all of our handfull of guys would agree with me on that point.) A lot of our guys believe in staying on one side in order to build better and stronger and longer lasting relationships with players on the same side, and feel that it leads to better teamwork in the right situations.  I agree with that too, but I don't think that someone who switches sides is necessarily going to care any less about helping a guy out who needs it just because he hasn't known him for a good while.  That is just my opinion there however. 

I have seen guys use the eny and side switching to avoid being on the low side, and yet still keep their perk rides though.  But, really, that doesn't even bother me too much.  I just want to fight some guys and kill a few of them if I can.  What I think of the way anyone else plays the game has literally no signifigance. 

[thorsim]

it's an old nickname for the perpetually complaining pony pilots that infest online WW2 air combat games ...

a term of endearment you know like "runstang" or "less-scorts" ...

i am amazed you two have never heard it in this context before ...

well now you have, it is pretty catchy, so you might as well get used to it ...

From the AHII standpoint... most definitely Yes

As for the gelding part, please quit thinking about my balls, it's unnerving.

I was patient debating with you in other threads instead of just calling you a "tard" like other posters...but this tears it.

Maybe no one has ever told you anything about how to behave as a man before, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and share one major item of the "code" you should have learned before now: If you want to call another man, any man, something like "gelding", do it to his face. And out of doors.

We know return you to your regularly scheduled aircraft discussions.

you guys sure are sensitive, it was all in good fun ...

you did notice the imacon >>   << ...

so back to your "oh wo is me and my little pony" discussion ...

very entertaining ...

++S++

t

[boomerlu]

The fact that I had to even look up "Geldings" shows that it's pretty outside the standard AH vocab.

[Steve]

it's an old nickname for the perpetually complaining pony pilots that infest online WW2 air combat games ...

ayou guys sure are sensitive, it was all in good fun ...

you did notice the imacon >>   << ...

So was my gelding retort... meant to be a zinger  tinged in humor.

I'll fight in my pony. This means I get schooled sometimes, but I win now and then too.   

[thorsim]

So was my gelding retort... meant to be a zinger  tinged in humor.

good, glad to see there is a sense of humor here 

b&z seemed truly offended which was not my intention ...

I'll fight in my pony. This means I get schooled sometimes, but I win now and then too.   

btw, i feel the same way about my a8  

+S+

t

[Wagger]

Buy the way my understanding is that the Mustang has a good roll rate at high speeds and maneuvers better than most at speed.  But what do I know.  I have only been involved with them from the opposing side mostly.  I fly LW most all the time.  I don't look at the ENY, or worry about which plane is better.  My most used rides are the FW 190D-9, Bf 109G-2, and FW 190A-8.  I'm not the best pilot by a long shot but I will say one thing.  I will up against anyone anytime no matter what you are flying.  If you shoot me down good.  You will not hear me whine or complain.  Now lets see if you can do the same.  Buy the way I find the Mustang and most Allied planes overall easier to fly.  They seem more stable and handle nicer.  That's why the few times I fly them I get my bellybutton handed to me.  I prefer a plane that requires more attention.  Just like my women.

[vonKrimm]

nm

[RufusLeaking]

Buy the way I find the Mustang and most Allied planes overall easier to fly.  They seem more stable and handle nicer.  That's why the few times I fly them I get my bellybutton handed to me.  I prefer a plane that requires more attention.  Just like my women.

The feminine metaphor for airplanes makes me laugh. 

Both will drain your bank account in a heartbeat. 

Both can be fatally unforgiving. 

And both can take you to new heights. 

Planes don't get jealous when you ride another plane, though.

I can do this all day.

[BnZs]

Buy the way my understanding is that the Mustang has a good roll rate at high speeds and maneuvers better than most at speed. 

There is no such thing as "maneuvering better at speed" unless one plane has high-speed control authority problem like the 109s.

A Pony and a SpitXVI going 300mph IAS are both above their corner speeds. The P-51 will not "out-turn" the Spit at this speed...both planes will have the same turn performance at 300mph because they both have the same limitation, Gs. But as speed bleeds down the the Pony will become lift-limited sooner than the Spit with and its sustained rate and radius will be better. The caveat is that sometimes the worse-turning plane can dump excess speed quicker when  both planes begin maneuvering well above their corner speed. But for when a plane has significantly inferior turn performance, the advantage it gains by doing this is likely to very momentary, and in any case it can be countered by the plane with a momentary over-abundance of energy capitalizing on that excess  and *not* entering the "who can slow down fastest" contest, the maneuvers to do this being generally well known. (The average level of AH flyer is higher than most give credit for. Most players seem to have *some* understanding of using vertical geometry to arrest forward momentum.)

[BnZs]

I am not, btw, a big time  P-51 pilot. I fly alot of planes in the MA, they all have their qualities, that is why the P-51 strikes me as nothing special in AHII.

Thing that I kind of pick up and object to is a sort of hostility towards the airplane amongst the forumites, the guy who wanted it perked being the most extreme example. I think there are people here who would secretly be glad it it was modeled to turn like a 190 A-8, accelerate like a P-40B, and have the firepower of a D3A, and then *perked*, just because they are so darn tired of the noob pick and runners and History channel hyperbole.

[thorsim]

I am not, btw, a big time  P-51 pilot. I fly alot of planes in the MA, they all have their qualities, that is why the P-51 strikes me as nothing special in AHII.

Thing that I kind of pick up and object to is a sort of hostility towards the airplane amongst the forumites, the guy who wanted it perked being the most extreme example. I think there are people here who would secretly be glad it it was modeled to turn like a 190 A-8, accelerate like a P-40B, and have the firepower of a D3A, and then *perked*, just because they are so darn tired of the noob pick and runners and History channel hyperbole.

are you really saying the pony turns like an a8 in AH ?

[Gabriel]

There is no such thing as "maneuvering better at speed" unless one plane has high-speed control authority problem like the 109s.

Some planes roll faster as speeds increase , some roll slower as the KPH go up.

That qualifies as 'maneuvering better at speed' .

[Shuffler]

Actually Shuf, we are furballers only.  If you look at our score, you'll not find a single base capture.  Ever. 

I think a lot of the guys who switch really do so in order to even things up and have good fights, I really do.  And I have nothing but respect for you guys in the 80th, you guys play the game the way I feel it ought to be played.  (I'm sure that most, if not all of our handfull of guys would agree with me on that point.) A lot of our guys believe in staying on one side in order to build better and stronger and longer lasting relationships with players on the same side, and feel that it leads to better teamwork in the right situations.  I agree with that too, but I don't think that someone who switches sides is necessarily going to care any less about helping a guy out who needs it just because he hasn't known him for a good while.  That is just my opinion there however. 

I have seen guys use the eny and side switching to avoid being on the low side, and yet still keep their perk rides though.  But, really, that doesn't even bother me too much.  I just want to fight some guys and kill a few of them if I can.  What I think of the way anyone else plays the game has literally no signifigance. 

Thanks for your vote of confidence. I have no problem with folks who don't change other than when they complain about eny or numbers. The 80th always flies for the green side no matter who that may be.

Funny actually as each side pretty much says the same about the other side. 

Most on each side appreciates us coming over to help. There are always a few that can't understand though.  <S>

[Steve]

are you really saying the pony turns like an a8 in AH ?

The a8 is perhaps the only fighter the 51D out turns.  The pony will out turn a couple of others, under specific circumstances.