It takes 2 to HO....

[CAP1]

Only thing that bothers me of what Yeager has said is that he will never fight at a disadvantage.  That's extremely weak.  Especially in the MW.

Yeager if you ever want to go to the DA and work on some moves with less E, I'll be down.  I'll teach you a few things.   

actually, he fought me last night. co alt, co e merge......i managed to get above him, and for the most part stayed there. i think that should've had him at a disadvantage........although i still couldn't kill that stupid little 205. 

it was a pretty enjoyable fight. i;ve been pretty lucky these last few nights on, finding good fights. 

[JunkyII]

actually, he fought me last night. co alt, co e merge......i managed to get above him, and for the most part stayed there. i think that should've had him at a disadvantage........although i still couldn't kill that stupid little 205. 

it was a pretty enjoyable fight. i;ve been pretty lucky these last few nights on, finding good fights. 

The way i fly is either just jump in and get ganged(especially in a KI84) or I stay on the edge of a fight looking for one or two to come out and fight them alone, I kept fighting this noob like this but the funny thing was he was giving me a better and better fight each time almost getting shots on me

[Yeager]

Only thing that bothers me of what Yeager has said is that he will never fight at a disadvantage.  That's extremely weak.  Especially in the MW.

Yeager if you ever want to go to the DA and work on some moves with less E, I'll be down.  I'll teach you a few things.   

lol grizz did I say "never"  hehe.....you know what they say "never say never".  Anyway with an attitude like yours' I would love to DA you sometime.  Next time we are in MW together lets go, but it has to be for fun....last thing I want to do is contribute to some mosterous ego (hint akak)

[SPKmes]

The way i fly is either just jump in and get ganged(especially in a KI84) or I stay on the edge of a fight looking for one or two to come out and fight them alone, I kept fighting this noob like this but the funny thing was he was giving me a better and better fight each time almost getting shots on me

Thanks for not mentioning my name.  

[CAP1]

The way i fly is either just jump in and get ganged(especially in a KI84) or I stay on the edge of a fight looking for one or two to come out and fight them alone, I kept fighting this noob like this but the funny thing was he was giving me a better and better fight each time almost getting shots on me

that's a good thing. means he was learning. i'd have gone on 200, and given him some tips.

[grizz441]

lol grizz did I say "never"  hehe.....you know what they say "never say never".  Anyway with an attitude like yours' I would love to DA you sometime.  Next time we are in MW together lets go, but it has to be for fun....last thing I want to do is contribute to some mosterous ego (hint akak)

Lol, I'm not trying to prove anything so yeah, it would be for fun.  But if you have been flying since 2001 and still don't feel comfortable fighting and killing from a disadvantage, imo that is a virtual AH crime.  And when I say disadvantage, I'm talking a 1v1 when the other guy has >>E, not a situation where 4 guys jump you from above.  That's not really a fight anyone should look for.

[JunkyII]

that's a good thing. means he was learning. i'd have gone on 200, and given him some tips.

I was pming him, 200 would have made it spam

[CAP1]

I was pming him, 200 would have made it spam

true....excellent point. 

[BlauK]

Its a known fact that you can get killed avioding a HO.

Yes, and it is also a known fact that you can get killed in any maneuver while hostiles are around. I bet ones dies more seldom avoiding HO's that taking them.

..most of the stuff Ive read and learned is you want to turn towards HO to make E states the same, also when you have the same E as someone its all about who can get inside the other person the best which almost means get passed HO which is sometimes hard to do at low speed. If you want me to show you in DA that it doesnt take both to HO I will...

I don't see how you could show me anything like that when for the past 10 years I've flown AH, I have never "been HOed". In every HO situation I have been in, I have either initiated it or chosen to participate in it after the opponent has turned towards me.

Obviously our concept of HO still differs a lot. Maybe you are calling any planes flying to each others' general direction an HO? To me it is an HO only when both have a gun solution. Also turning into the enemy (initiating an HO) does not equalize E states. E is speed and altitude. Pilots are encouraged to turn into the enemy as a defense, but that does not mean HO.

[grizz441]

Obviously our concept of HO still differs a lot. Maybe you are calling any planes flying to each others' general direction an HO? To me it is an HO only when both have a gun solution. Also turning into the enemy (initiating an HO) does not equalize E states. E is speed and altitude. Pilots are encouraged to turn into the enemy as a defense, but that does not mean HO.

There's a moment in a merge where one pilot decides "I'm firing here".  There is another moment where the other pilot either decides "I'm firing here", which will result in a textbook HO and 2 deaths, or "I'm dodging the HO", which may or may not result in his death.  The outcome of the "Head On" is entirely dependent on the 2nd pilot's decision of whether or not to take the joust.  If the first pilot decides he's firing regardless of the second pilot's actions, how can you only say he HO'd if the second pilot reciprocates?  You can't.  It's a HO whether the second pilot dodges the shot or HO's also.  

HOing is a decision, not an angles technicality.

[Vinkman]

There's a moment in a merge where one pilot decides "I'm firing here".  There is another moment where the other pilot either decides "I'm firing here", which will result in a textbook HO and 2 deaths, or "I'm dodging the HO", which may or may not result in his death.  The outcome of the "Head On" is entirely dependent on the 2nd pilot's decision of whether or not to take the joust.  If the first pilot decides he's firing regardless of the second pilot's actions, how can you only say he HO'd if the second pilot reciprocates?  You can't.  It's a HO whether the second pilot dodges the shot or HO's also.  

HOing is a decision, not an angles technicality.

I agree with this observation. I would also add that a game of chicken is afoot. If you're in an A8 and you're heading straight at a Spit you have the advantage. The Spit is out gunned and should break. The Spits early break is an advantage for the A8. If the A8 choses not to shoot, and because of some ettiquet rule the Spit knows he isn't going to shoot, then the Spit gains the advantage because his plane is more manueverable and they are starting from the same point as they pass through each other.

I went a long time not HO-ing in my P-39 because of the 'ettiquet'.  70% of the time, the guy hoed me, and I wondered why I didn't shoot first when I saw him lining me up. The other 30% of the guys that don't shoot are probably veterans enough to know the ettiquet which means they are veterans enough to kill me.  .  In which case I need the advantage of making them break early. So I made the decision about 1 month ago that if someone flies staight at my P-39 he's going to get a face full of 37mm. 

...better break early. 

[Wreked]

I went a long time not HO-ing in my P-39 because of the 'ettiquet'.  70% of the time, the guy hoed me, and I wondered why I didn't shoot first when I saw him lining me up. The other 30% of the guys that don't shoot are probably veterans enough to know the ettiquet which means they are veterans enough to kill me.  .  In which case I need the advantage of making them break early. So I made the decision about 1 month ago that if someone flies staight at my P-39 he's going to get a face full of 37mm. 

...better break early. 

+1

I've never come across this "HO etiquette" rule in any of the 4-5 Combat Air Sims I've played over the years. Strange. Almost a left over of medieval jousting - certainly not based on any sort of 20 Century combat concepts. <shrug> maybe many of the people complaining should really just limit themselves to the DA - it seems they would certainly be a lot happier and not feel so put upon. Just MHO.

I fly a 190A8 exclusively as a Boom & Zoom fighter - as IMO it was intended to be fought. In a large majority of my attacks I would estimate that close to 60% of my cons turn into me and go Head On. It is human nature to want to face your enemy and get a few licks in as soon as you can. Maybe they intend to fire or break off - I have NO way of knowing and if I wait till D5 or less it is too late. As far as I'm concerned if a con is still HO at D12 he's committed to a gun run on me. I'm either going to "refuse" the HO or give him a face full of 20 mike mikes. MY choice and I'm certainly NOT going to whine and cry on 200 or PM as I see so many doing. Grow up and accept it.

What really irks me are the "You're playing the game wrong" "You'll never learn anything" "You're ruining it for others" Fightards whinning that goes on. It IS a part of the game and if YOU are so good at the game then what do YOU care if others do it.

Seems that it's usually the losers who whine - if you avoided the HO then what's the problem? According to Fightards the HO'ers are now in an inferior situation....go figure

...BUT these guys are so easy to wind up - it's almost criminal to do it .....um........naw......

I think they actually enjoy the whinning about HO's - otherwise they'd have to find something else. Xrist on a crutch - it's just a game!! <shrug>

...can't you fightards just learn to get along with everyone eh??

[Steve]

+1


It IS a part of the game and if YOU are so good at the game then what do YOU care if others do it.

Because competition against skilled sticks  is more fun than clubbing the baby seals who largely populate the MA.

[thorsim]

i think "turntards" is more appropriate  

as we are all fighting ...
 
 

[CAP1]

turning into an attacking con...especially one that you know is carrying a LOT of speed, is generally done to spoil his shot.