Verdict on the P-47M?

[shreck]

Thought you were collecting your AH pension in the nursing home?

There's a pension?   

[Gabriel]

My only comment is that Lazerr's awesomeness is indisputable.

If only we could all be him.

[Octavius]

My only comment is that Lazerr's awesomeness is indisputable.

I beg to differ... lazer, pfft!

[killnu]

50% fuel, 6 gun package and it flies very well slow.  Lazer, when I fought you in it, was at 75% fuel and big ammo load....the extra wieght makes a big difference.  I have been playing with ammo load outs and fuel load out in it quite a bit.  Flies a lot like the D40 to me...little faster, better acceleration maybe...I normally dont fly D40 with 50% and 6 guns tho either.

It is a very capable fighter.  I do agree most will (and already do) fly it like a dora/pony and bnz pick in it.  It is a shame to see that when it is capable of so much more. 

I know I have bested several spits (8/9/16) in it lower and slower than they were...dominate bird.

[bj229r]

I get about same rate of success as N...just doesnt take as long, no matter the outcome

[Strip]

The P-47M is a monster....

Anyone that is having trouble with low speed handling needs to practice some more. I can whip that thing a 180 degrees, or any angle (roll) using a little back elev, little aileron and a lot of rudder.

New favorite ride!

Strip

[Widewing]

I don't like exaggerations.

The P-47M does NOT make 375mph OTD in WEP.

The F4U-4 goes about 350 OTD without WEP. The P-47M goes about 338.

The P-47M does NOT climb at close to 4,000 fpm.

The P-47M does NOT out-turn Spitfires.

How about some actual test data?

Climb to 10k from dead stop on runway, in minutes, seconds and hundredths of seconds. 25% fuel, 6 guns with 267 rounds for P-47s.
P-51D: 3:14.47
P-47D-40: 3:00.88
P-47M: 2:50.56
F4U-4: 2:48.44
Nearly a dead heat between the F4U-4 and P-47M.

Speed at Sea Level
F4U-4: 375 mph
P-47M: 368 mph
P-51D: 367 mph
Advantage F4U-4. Nonetheless, all are damn fast on the deck.

Speed at 5k
P-51D: 387 mph
P-47M: 385 mph
F4U-4: 380 mph
Advantage P-51D, with the M breathing down its neck. The F4U-4 falls behind at this altitude.

Speed at 10k
P-51D: 407 mph
P-47M: 402 mph
F4U-4: 398 mph
Again, advantage P-51D, with the M 5 mph slower and the F4U-4 falling behind again.

Speed at 15k
F4U-4: 420 mph
P-47M: 419 mph
P-51D: 410 mph
Another virtual dead heat between the M and the F4U-4. The P-51D suffers from falling MAP until 17k, where the supercharger changes gears.

Turn Radius at 500 ft ASL, clean (no flaps).
F4U-4: 691 ft
P-51D: 777 ft
P-47M: 779 ft
Advantage F4U-4. The P-51D and P-47M are too close to make any difference. Both the M and the P-51D can drop a notch of flaps at high speed, tightening up their turn. The F4U-4 cannot drop any flaps until much slower.

Turn Radius at 500 ft ASL, full flaps.
F4U-4: 428 ft
P-47M: 579 ft
P-51D: 633 ft
The F4U-4's "wonder flaps" make the big difference here. The P-47M out-turns the Mustang without any drama.

As you can see, the P-47M is very competitive with the F4U-4 and P-51D. However, being a high altitude fighter, 15k and below is not its element, which only amplifies its performance in this comparison. Only in a low-speed, flaps out furball does the F4U-4 show any marked superiority. Above 25k, the P-47M is superior to every prop fighter in the game.


My regards,

Widewing

[Anaxogoras]

Why test with the smallest gun package allowed?  Did you test all of the aircraft with 25% fuel, or just the 47M?

HTC's own chart for climbrate seems to better represent the typical combat loadouts for these aircraft:

[Lazerr]

lol.. im just going by experience I guess, yeah KU i believe it could have been lighter.. I could have been too

Im just saying it sucks down low, I guess thats where im used to hangin out, I dont really pay much attention to anything above 10k, Ill stand by that point.  I guess if it zooms around at 15k with a f4u4 and p51 so be it.  Its pretty easy to dodge any plane when it makes lazy passed, but the f4u4 and 51 scare me, because they can slow down at any point and dominate just about anything.  P47m cant, its a dog, i guess is my point. 

[Rich46yo]

But the real edge is the choice of an extra 25% in firepower.

Yesterday I snap shot the tail off of a Corsair with the 8 0.50s and I dont ever remember doing so with 6. And with the barest touch to the trigger too. Thats about 106+ rounds per second compared to 80 rps with 6, or 53 rps on the P-51B or Brewster, FM2...ect Plenty powerful to kill any airplane in the game.

So far this tour the P-47M is posting a 1.46, "equal to the D11. The D25 a 1.11. The P-51D a 1.07. And this is without carrying "any" ords.

[Gabriel]

Widewings post almost makes the plane seem perk worthy.

Not suggesting that of course. But those numbers are pretty great.

[Anaxogoras]

So far this tour the P-47M is posting a 1.46, "equal to the D11. The D25 a 1.11. The P-51D a 1.07. And this is without carrying "any" ords.

And how many heavy D-11s do we see?

FYI, the P-38J and Ta-152 (1.64 and 1.65) once again have the highest unperked K/D ratios this tour, and that's with over 8000 kills+deaths for the P-38J.

The K/D ratios of the P-47D-40 and P-47N have dropped lower than I've ever seen them before, both <.7.  What we're seeing are the effects of people who almost always fly a fighter light, vs the fighters that are flown as bomb trucks, e.g. F4U-1A is above 1.3.  In the main arena, the P-51D might the most popular bomb truck of all.

[Lazerr]

I guess I dont really care to compare my lightning stats with the guy that is doing NOE attacks on a CV...

Either way, all your jug can do is climb better and run faster than my 38.   Anything after that is an express trip to the tower for the p47 pilot.  Not perk worthy.

[BnZs]

It is a given that what makes the F4U-4 "special" is tremendous performance *COMBINED* with tremendous maneuverability. Several planes match the raw speed, and more than several planes match the turning ability, but not in one package. There is no getting around the fact that the F4U-4 owns either plane as anything except a race car.

Your climb figures are interesting, because the HTC charts show a noticeable advantage for the -4 in WEP climb all the way to 20K. I suspect the difference is the 47 carrying much more fuel in those tests.



As for the P-47M out-turning the Pony...we both know that, it follows from the performance of other Jugs relative the Pony. But we both know it ain't quite right either.

Tremendous disadvantage for the 47 vs. both types is that all this extraordinary performance can only be used for five minutes at a time. After the WEP is gone at low alts, the 47M's performance simply ain't impressive in LW at typical MA alts. At 10K the P-51 meeting a P-47, both cruising around at MIL, will be over 30mph faster!

25K performance is almost completely irrelevant for MA purposes, and 15K is above most of the action.

All in all, the 47M is not even the best unperked plane IMO, much less a near-equal of the 4-Hog.

How about some actual test data?

Climb to 10k from dead stop on runway, in minutes, seconds and hundredths of seconds. 25% fuel, 6 guns with 267 rounds for P-47s.
P-51D: 3:14.47
P-47D-40: 3:00.88
P-47M: 2:50.56
F4U-4: 2:48.44
Nearly a dead heat between the F4U-4 and P-47M.

Speed at Sea Level
F4U-4: 375 mph
P-47M: 368 mph
P-51D: 367 mph
Advantage F4U-4. Nonetheless, all are damn fast on the deck.

Speed at 5k
P-51D: 387 mph
P-47M: 385 mph
F4U-4: 380 mph
Advantage P-51D, with the M breathing down its neck. The F4U-4 falls behind at this altitude.

Speed at 10k
P-51D: 407 mph
P-47M: 402 mph
F4U-4: 398 mph
Again, advantage P-51D, with the M 5 mph slower and the F4U-4 falling behind again.

Speed at 15k
F4U-4: 420 mph
P-47M: 419 mph
P-51D: 410 mph
Another virtual dead heat between the M and the F4U-4. The P-51D suffers from falling MAP until 17k, where the supercharger changes gears.

Turn Radius at 500 ft ASL, clean (no flaps).
F4U-4: 691 ft
P-51D: 777 ft
P-47M: 779 ft
Advantage F4U-4. The P-51D and P-47M are too close to make any difference. Both the M and the P-51D can drop a notch of flaps at high speed, tightening up their turn. The F4U-4 cannot drop any flaps until much slower.

Turn Radius at 500 ft ASL, full flaps.
F4U-4: 428 ft
P-47M: 579 ft
P-51D: 633 ft
The F4U-4's "wonder flaps" make the big difference here. The P-47M out-turns the Mustang without any drama.

As you can see, the P-47M is very competitive with the F4U-4 and P-51D. However, being a high altitude fighter, 15k and below is not its element, which only amplifies its performance in this comparison. Only in a low-speed, flaps out furball does the F4U-4 show any marked superiority. Above 25k, the P-47M is superior to every prop fighter in the game.


My regards,

Widewing

[BnZs]

Either way, all your jug can do is climb better and run faster than my 38.   Anything after that is an express trip to the tower for the p47 pilot.  Not perk worthy.

Actually the climb breakdown looks like this:



So at anything resembling typical MA alts, advantage P-38. That is just raw climb figures of course, not even taking into account the torque-less advantage in the vertical.