A "What If.." quesion.

[JunkyII]

Gettysburg really didn't decide anything. Lee's army wasn't destroyed in detail, and the Army of the Potomac was just as battered by the end of the engagement. It didn't hasten the end of the war. Any opportunity Meade may have had to finish off Lee was largely lost by allowing him to escape back across the border, in large part because his own army was in no more condition to press another fight than was Lee's.

Most importantly: Any news of the loss at Gettysburg would have been IMMEDIATELY overshadowed by the much more significant victory at Vicksburg the following day. If the Union had lost Gettysburg all it likely would have meant is that Grant would have been transferred to the Eastern Theater and taken control of the war there that much sooner

I have to disagree, If Lee would have won that battle, he would have got good supplies while he was north and could have fought there for probably a year before having to withdraw back accross. This in itself would have slowed the Mississippi campaign down heavily since the North would have been working to get Lee out. And as already mentioned the people were already getting tired of war in the north. I think in the book I mentioned the two countries ended up joining together during the World Wars and the future wouldnt have been much different

[oakranger]

I have to disagree, If Lee would have won that battle, he would have got good supplies while he was north and could have fought there for probably a year before having to withdraw back accross. This in itself would have slowed the Mississippi campaign down heavily since the North would have been working to get Lee out. And as already mentioned the people were already getting tired of war in the north. I think in the book I mentioned the two countries ended up joining together during the World Wars and the future wouldnt have been much different

Actually, Lee was 1000 yards from the union main supplies at Gettysburg.  They did not know at the time.

[JimmyC]

BOB would have been over in a trice if Hitler had invaded France first
the year stop gap (phoney war) gave us (UK) time to prepare our defences
the spitfire came out just in time replacing bi planes , if Hitler had taken France instead of poland
and attacked us next, we would have been defending in planes, ...nuff said
the sound of jackboots would have been resonating down whitehall

[Angus]

Hitler's Blitz through Poland was much more primitive than what he launched at W-Europe. One of the main attacking aircraft was a Bipe (Henchel), and the army was largely horse-drawn. The firebombing on Warshaw was done with JU-52's where they shovelled incendiaries out the cargo doors.
My point is, that both parties came a long way before 1940, not just the British.
FYI, Spitfires claimed the first LW victim in 1939, over Edinburgh. Was a bit of a shock to the Germans....

[CAP1]

Ive been playing alot of rap lately give me a break

you like sensless noise that much?

[CAP1]

BOB would have been over in a trice if Hitler had invaded France first
the year stop gap (phoney war) gave us (UK) time to prepare our defences
the spitfire came out just in time replacing bi planes , if Hitler had taken France instead of poland
and attacked us next, we would have been defending in planes, ...nuff said
the sound of jackboots would have been resonating down whitehall

i do believe the hurricane had a bit more to do with englands victory in the bob.

[Saxman]

I have to disagree, If Lee would have won that battle, he would have got good supplies while he was north and could have fought there for probably a year before having to withdraw back accross. This in itself would have slowed the Mississippi campaign down heavily since the North would have been working to get Lee out. And as already mentioned the people were already getting tired of war in the north. I think in the book I mentioned the two countries ended up joining together during the World Wars and the future wouldnt have been much different

It would have had NO effect on the Mississippi campaign, because the capitulation of Vicksburg THE NEXT DAY gave the Union full control of the river. Pemberton's surrender to Grant was not dependent at all on what Lee was doing and Lee winning Gettysburg would not have convinced Pemberton to hold out longer, because there wasn't a damn thing Lee could have done to dislodge Grant from around the city in the first place.

[oakranger]

BOB would have been over in a trice if Hitler had invaded France first
the year stop gap (phoney war) gave us (UK) time to prepare our defences
the spitfire came out just in time replacing bi planes , if Hitler had taken France instead of poland
and attacked us next, we would have been defending in planes, ...nuff said
the sound of jackboots would have been resonating down whitehall

You really think that Britain would have the same defensive system as they did in BoB?

[Angus]

Do you really think the Germans would have had the same attack force to bomb Britain into submission as they had in 1940?
1 September 1939 wouldn't leave much of a BoB to be fought anyway. With 6 weeks in France, which probably would have been more due to the French being closer to the German strength than in 1940 (I know it was clumsy of them), would perhaps have left the LW at readyness in late October. That means all sorts of weather, and being to late for a cross-channel invasion. It also means a short window of daylight for operations, which makes the defender's work easier if anything. And in 1939 the LW did nowhere nearly have the night bombing equipment of what they posessed a year later....
Me thinks that a Ju-52 over London in daylight in October 1939 would have been....a plane I'd rather not have been riding.

[oakranger]

Do you really think the Germans would have had the same attack force to bomb Britain into submission as they had in 1940?
1 September 1939 wouldn't leave much of a BoB to be fought anyway. With 6 weeks in France, which probably would have been more due to the French being closer to the German strength than in 1940 (I know it was clumsy of them), would perhaps have left the LW at readyness in late October. That means all sorts of weather, and being to late for a cross-channel invasion. It also means a short window of daylight for operations, which makes the defender's work easier if anything. And in 1939 the LW did nowhere nearly have the night bombing equipment of what they posessed a year later....
Me thinks that a Ju-52 over London in daylight in October 1939 would have been....a plane I'd rather not have been riding.

Agree.  there is no way they could have achieve air supericy over England in 1939. In fact, Germany could not have achieve anything, as far as invading Engalnd, with what they had.  However,  Germany taking France in 1939 would change the whole course of the war and Russia may have end it quickly too.

[APDrone]

Agree.  there is no way they could have achieve air supericy over England in 1939. In fact, Germany could not have achieve anything, as far as invading Engalnd, with what they had.  However,  Germany taking France in 1939 would change the whole course of the war and Russia may have end it quickly too.

Sorry, but I'm having trouble following you.  My understanding is that England wasn't on Hitler's priority list to start with.  Even if France fell first, Hitler probably would have gobbled up everything else, too.. just in a different order, except, perhaps, those areas that the Soviets might have taken first.  There was a non-aggression pact between Germany and the Soviets, so I don't think the Soviets would have attacked Germany.

So.. we're back to where we were before Barbarosa kicked off. The big question is if Poland would have been under self or Soviet control.  Either case, it shouldn't have been a major influence on Hitler proceeding to invade the Soviets and getting wiped out by attrition/weather later on.

[Nemisis]

Better question....What if the South won The Battle at Ghettysburg?

I think there is a book about it somewhere

If your interested theres a series of books telling what the author thinks would have happened had the U.S. lost the battle of Antitem, and England, and France recognized the C.S.A.

They're writen by Harry Turtledove, first one you should read is "How Few Remain" since it gives a lot of background info.

Theres actually 3 seperate series, The Great War, American Empire, and Settling Accounts.

[SuBWaYCH]

better question:

What is France & the U.K. pressed an invasion into germany while the nazi's invaded poland and the 2-3 months afterwards? They had a very high numbers advantage on the western front during the polish campaign.

[Sonicblu]

NEVER PLAY FROM THE IF DECK.

[FiLtH]

 I cant follow this thread. One minute Im in Europe, next Im in the Civil War.