Author Topic: New History Channel Program  (Read 4050 times)

Offline DREDger

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #120 on: November 23, 2009, 12:39:26 PM »
The Germans held western Europe with minimal effort.

The German forces stationed in Germany and western Europe after Operation Barbarossa in 1941 were reserve units, training units and front line units rotating from the Russian front to rebuild their strength. In 1943 Russian and eastern European "volunteer" units known as "osttruppen" were transferred to France after suffering from mass desertions on the Russian front. There were never more than 9 German divisions in Africa during the war; for most of the war there were no more than 3. From the summer of 1941 to January 1944 there were never more than 56 German divisions stationed in western Europe; for most of that time there were less than 40. Even on D-Day when the Germans knew the invasion was imminent there were only 66 divisions stationed in western Europe, and 1 in 6 German soldiers in France were "osttruppen" and of negligible combat efficiency. August 1943 there were 226 German divisions on the Russian front, including Finland, the Balkans and South Eastern fronts. February 1945, with the Allied armies marching on the Rhine, there were still only 68 German divisions on the western front. At the same time there were 186 German divisions on the eastern front. In May 1945 with Hitler contemplating suicide in his bunker there were 89 German divisions frighting the Russians; only four divisions were left to fight the Western Allies. (Verbände und Truppen der deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS 1939-1945, by Georg Tessin.)

While I still disagree with you on this point of conjecture, I did find your paragraph above an interesting read.

 

Offline Die Hard

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #121 on: November 23, 2009, 01:01:16 PM »
Wouldn't it be boring if we all agreed on everything? ;)

As long as we can all debate without getting too emotional, respecting different opinions shouldn't be a problem, even if we don't agree with them.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

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Offline Shuffler

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #122 on: November 23, 2009, 01:44:26 PM »
Wouldn't it be boring if we all agreed on everything? ;)

As long as we can all debate without getting too emotional, respecting different opinions shouldn't be a problem, even if we don't agree with them.

Yup. One thing for certain, no matter who you are, you will be proud of your own country. I of  my American History, you of your Russian History, and others of their countries history.
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #123 on: November 23, 2009, 01:55:46 PM »
However, there is such a thing as being too proud... and taking offense to differing opinions.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline DREDger

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #124 on: November 23, 2009, 02:00:14 PM »
.....you of your Russian History....

I tell you one thing, I bet the Ruskies would have fared much better early on had Stalin not decimated his officer ranks during the great purge.


Offline Die Hard

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #125 on: November 23, 2009, 02:05:39 PM »
Indeed.
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Shuffler

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #126 on: November 23, 2009, 03:45:17 PM »
However, there is such a thing as being too proud... and taking offense to differing opinions.

Never heard of anyone being "too proud".

Just Proud..... and not so much Proud.
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #127 on: November 23, 2009, 04:07:22 PM »
Never heard of anyone being "too proud".

Really? You've never met anyone too proud of him/herself? You must not get out much...
It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline Shuffler

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #128 on: November 23, 2009, 04:15:06 PM »
Really? You've never met anyone too proud of him/herself? You must not get out much...

Never heard of anyone being "too proud".

Just Proud..... and not so much Proud.

I'm 50... lived in or been to every state in the US except Alaska and Hawaii. Lived in South America, Mexico, and Canada. I have never seen anyone take too much pride in their Country.

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Offline ink

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #129 on: November 23, 2009, 04:18:09 PM »
Never heard of anyone being "too proud".

Just Proud..... and not so much Proud.

I'm 50... lived in or been to every state in the US except Alaska and Hawaii. Lived in South America, Mexico, and Canada. I have never seen anyone take too much pride in their Country.




pride can be a bad thing!

Offline Die Hard

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #130 on: November 23, 2009, 04:27:40 PM »
Too proud.

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

-Gandhi

Offline DREDger

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #131 on: November 23, 2009, 04:31:58 PM »

Offline jimson

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #132 on: November 23, 2009, 05:34:45 PM »
However, there is such a thing as being too proud... and taking offense to differing opinions.

Well, there are ways of expressing oneself, like saying the Russians bore the brunt of the Nazi onslaught, that Russian victory in Operation Barbarossa depleted so much of the German war machine that the allied victory was assured. That would have been hard to dispute, but saying the US war effort against Germany was insignificant?

Can you not see why that might be offensive?

I for one, don't think that the US alone would have beaten the Nazi's. Certainly not without a much larger expenditure of blood and treasure.

There are just too many variables to play a "what if" game.

Russia did not defeat the Nazi's on the western front. The US and England did.

The US did not defeat the Nazi's on the eastern front. The Russians did.

The western allies actions tied up resources that could have been used against Russia and vice-versa. Even the arguably ineffective bombing campaign did degrade German morale and had to have had some effect on Germany's industrial capabilities.

Even the Pacific campaign certainly ensured that Japan could not turn any of it's attention to Russia.

We all won the war, and if a US produced show concentrates on the US role, that is to be expected.

I wouldn't expect a Russian produced documentary to even mention anything other than Russia's Great Patriotic War.

Die-hard, if you are of Russian heritage, then be proud, but don't you go being too proud either.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 06:26:31 PM by jimson »

Offline Shuffler

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #133 on: November 23, 2009, 07:02:31 PM »
Too proud.

(Image removed from quote.)

So your saying if a black, white, brown or any other race is proud of their race they are too proud... interesting.

Anything thing else you disagree with? I'm sure they are too proud too...... maybe sexual orientation or such?

Odd how your turn being proud of one's country into something that has nothing to do with what we were talking about....
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 07:04:28 PM by Shuffler »
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Offline Motherland

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Re: New History Channel Program
« Reply #134 on: November 23, 2009, 07:04:10 PM »
So your saying if a black, white, brown or any other race is proud of their race they are too proud... interesting.
There's quite a difference between simply being proud of your heritage and being a nationalist.
Are you implying that there's nothing wrong with nationalism?