Iran war games?

[Die Hard]

Either way, if it is true, you said 5 billion.  The site you listed says the total was $4 billion...

It says more than 4 billion. Other sources like the one Ack-Ack posted says 5.

...of which half went to industrial and agricultural concerns and the other 2 went to procurement.

Yes, agricultural products like pesticides and other dual-use chemicals...

So, if it is true, the US gave the Iraqi's a questionable amount of money towards their military build up during and after their war with Iran.  It says it ended in early 1990.  We attacked and destroyed a large percentage of their military hardware in 91.... so basically we removed what we gave them.

So did the French. QED.

[Bodhi]

So did the French. QED.

The French continually supplied military hardware and liquid cash through the embargo against Iraq, right up to the weeks before the beginning of Iraq War II.

[Die Hard]

Your turn: Please provide proof of that.

[BrownBaron]

Well......they probably are engaged in weapon development using nuclear technology, however they ARE in a very turbulent area of the world, so i can understand why they would need to keep their military in good working order.

[Bodhi]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132832,00.html

That's the begginng of the reporting on the food for oil scandal.   Start doing some searches of destroyed roland III AA launchers in Iraq.  They weren't there in 91.

[Rich46yo]

Getting to Political, deleted post.

But do check out the oil for food program. And the Koffi-UN/French/Russian triumvirate.

[Die Hard]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132832,00.html

That's the begginng of the reporting on the food for oil scandal.   Start doing some searches of destroyed roland III AA launchers in Iraq.  They weren't there in 91.

Faux-News = proof? Please.

The French exported 60 Roland systems to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. The Roland missile system has been exported to nine other countries including America.


"In October 2003, controversy erupted between Poland and France when Polish forces from the Multinational force in Iraq found French Roland surface-to-air missiles. Polish and international press reported that Polish officers claimed these missiles had been manufactured in 2003. France pointed out that the latest Roland missiles were manufactured in the early 1990s and thus the manufacturing date was necessarily an error (it turned out it was probably the expiry date that was indicated), and affirmed that it had never sold weapons to Iraq in violation of the embargo. Investigations by the Polish authorities came to the conclusion that the persons responsible for the scandal were low level commanders, Wojskowe Służby Informacyjne the Polish Army's intelligence had not verified their claims before they were leaked to the press. Poland apologized to France for the scandal, but these allegations against France worsened the already somewhat strained relationships between the two countries. The entire incident was called sarcastically "Rolandgate" by the Polish media, using the unofficial naming conventions of US political scandals after Watergate."

[Bodhi]

Look at the year of manufacture for the ROLAND III's that were found.  Oh, and what about that nifty thing about the Food for oil scam, don't care to mention that?

[Die Hard]

Look at the year of manufacture for the ROLAND III's that were found.

If I show you a picture of a terrorist holding an M-16 is that proof that America is arming terrorists? Of course not. The Roland III missile started production in 1988. Please provide proof that the missiles found were Roland III's and that they were sold after 1991, and if so, that they were sold by the French and not one of the 10 other countries operating the missile system.

Oh, and what about that nifty thing about the Food for oil scam, don't care to mention that?

What has that got to do with selling weapons to Iraq? American companies were also involved in the scandal, so we can't claim innocence or the moral high ground.

[Rich46yo]

What has that got to do with selling weapons to Iraq? American companies were also involved in the scandal, so we can't claim innocence or the moral high ground.

Really? And what part of the scandal were American companies part of?

In a nutshell http://www.meforum.org/716/iraq-and-the-importance-of-the-uns-oil-for-food

The scam worked through a process of kickbacks. Hussein would sell oil at the low market price, which naturally attracted many investors who wanted to re-sell the oil at higher price. Hussein chose those with whom he would do business and those people in turn would give Hussein a slice of the profits. Accordingly, the money earmarked for the humanitarian needs of Iraqis went instead to whatever Hussein wanted. Hussein used some of this money to buy political influence in the Security Council and secretariat. Some of Hussein's biggest business partners were from China, France and Russia.

The "things" Saddam "wanted" was "weapons". He continued to purchase Russian made weapons despite the ambargo against him. The French were knee deep in the scam, not only for money, but to allow Saddam to pay back some of the money he still owed the French for the huge weapons purchases he still owed them.

The French And Russians basicallt kept Saddam in power so he could pay back the monies owed for the "Huge" purchases of weaponry he had bought. Including the huge nuclear reactor at Osirak, which the Israelis heavily damaged in an air strike. This reactor was of a design tailor made for the production of weapons grade material.

Interesting article of whom France is surrently trolling reactors to. http://wmdinsights.com/I24/I24_ME1_NewFrenchNuclear.htm

[Die Hard]

Really? And what part of the scandal were American companies part of?

Russia was by far the largest culprit with more than 270 companies/parties involved in the scandal. Companies from other nations were involved too, but to a much lesser degree:


Austria:

    * The Arab-Austrian Society - 1 million barrels.

Belarus:

    * Liberal Party - 1 million barrels
    * The Communist Party of Belarus - 1 million barrels

Brazil:

    * The 8th of October Movement, a Brazilian Communist group - 4.5 million barrels

Canada:

    * Arthur Millholland, president and CEO of the Oilexco company

Yugoslav:

    * The Yugoslav Left party - 9.5 million barrels
    * The Socialist Party - 1 million barrels
    * The Italian Party - 1 million barrels
    * "kokstuntsha" - possibly Kostunica's party - 1 million barrels

Other parties:

    * The Romanian Labor Party - 5.5 million barrels
    * The Party of the Hungarian Interest - 4.7 million barrels
    * The Bulgarian Socialist Party - 12 million barrels
    * The Communist Party of Slovakia - 1 million barrels

France:

    * The French-Arab Friendship Association - 15.1 million barrels
    * Former French Interior Minister Charles Pasqua - 12 million barrels
    * Patrick Maugein, the Trafigura company - 25 million barrels
    * Michel Grimard, "founder of the French-Iraqi Export Club" - 17.1 million barrels.

Egypt:

    * Khaled Gamal Abd Al-Nasser, "son of the late Egyptian president" - 16.6 million barrels
    * Imad Al-Galda, "a businessman and a member of the Egyptian parliament from President Mubarak's National Democratic Party" - 14 million barrels
    * Abd Al-Azim Mannaf, "editor of the Sout Al-Arab newspaper" - 6 million barrels
    * Muhammad Hilmi, "editor of the Egyptian paper Sahwat Misr" - an undisclosed number of barrels.
    * The United Arab Company - 6 million barrels
    * The Nile and Euphrates Company - 3 million barrels
    * The Al-Multaqa Foundation for Press and Publication - 1 million barrels.

Libya:

    * Prime Minister Shukri Ghanem - 1 million barrels

India:

    * The Indian Congress Party - 1 million barrels

Indonesia:

    * Indonesian President Megawati - 1 million barrels

Italy:

    * The Italian Petrol Union - 1 million barrels
    * West Petrol, an Italian company that trades crude oil and oil products - 1 million barrels
    * Roberto Formigoni, possibly the president of Lombardia - 1 million barrels
    * Salvatore Nicotra, an oil merchant - 1 million barrels

Myanmar:

    * Myanmar's Forestry Minister - 1 million barrels

Palestine:

    * The Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) - 4 million barrels
    * The PLO Political Bureau - 5 million barrels
    * Abu Al-Abbas - 11.5 million barrels
    * Abdallah Al-Horani - 8 million barrels
    * The PFLP - 5 million barrels
    * Wafa Tawfiq Al-Sayegh - 4 million barrels

Qatar:

    * Qatari Horseracing Association Chairman Hamad bin Ali Aal Thani - 14 million barrels
    * Gulf Petroleum - 2 million barrels

Spain:

    * Basem Qaqish, "a member of the Spanish Committee for the Defense of the Arab Cause" - 1 million barrels
    * Ali Ballout, "a pro-Saddam Lebanese journalist" - 1 million barrels
    * Javier Robert - 1 million barrels

Syria:

    * Farras Mustafa Tlass, "the son of Syrian Defense Minister Mustafa Tlass" - 6 million barrels
    * Audh Amourah - 18 million barrels
    * Ghassan Zakariya - 6 million barrels
    * Anwar Al-Aqqad - 2 million barrels
    * Hamida Na'Na', the owner of the Al-Wafaq Al-Arabi periodical - 1 million barrels.

Switzerland:

    * Glencore, the largest commodity trader in Switzerland - 12 million barrels
    * Taurus Petroleum - 1 million barrels
    * Petrogas, which is "listed under three sub-companies – Petrogas Services, Petrogas Distribution, and Petrogas Resources - and is associated with the Russian company Rosneftegazetroy" - 1 million barrels
    * Alcon, "listed in Lichtenstein and associated with larger oil companies" - 1 million barrels
    * Finar Holdings, which is "listed in Lugano, Switzerland, and is under liquidation" - received 1 million barrels

Ukraine:

    * The Social Democratic Party - 1 million barrels.
    * The Communist Party - 6 million barrels.
    * The Socialist Party - 1 million barrels.
    * The FTD oil company - 1 million barrels, as did other Ukrainian companies.

United Kingdom:

    * George Galloway - 1 million barrels
    * Fawwaz Zreiqat - 1 million barrels. Zreiqat also appears in the Jordanian section as having received 6 million barrels
    * The Mujahideen Khalq - 1 million barrels

United States:

    * Samir Vincent, "organized a delegation of Iraqi religious leaders to visit the U.S. and meet with former president Jimmy Carter" - 10.5 million barrels
    * Shaker Al-Khafaji, "the pro-Saddam chairman of the 17th conference of Iraqi expatriates" - 1 million barrels.

Other beneficiaries were companies and individuals from the Sudan, Yemen, Cyprus, Turkey, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Pakistan, the UAE, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Panama, Thailand, Chad, China, Nigeria, Kenya, Ireland, Bahrain, and the Philippines as well as two Saudi Arabian companies.


Plenty of blame to go around.

[Bodhi]

If I show you a picture of a terrorist holding an M-16 is that proof that America is arming terrorists? Of course not. The Roland III missile started production in 1988. Please provide proof that the missiles found were Roland III's and that they were sold after 1991, and if so, that they were sold by the French and not one of the 10 other countries operating the missile system.



What has that got to do with selling weapons to Iraq? American companies were also involved in the scandal, so we can't claim innocence or the moral high ground.

Nice try, but the French were the first to use the Roland III launcher system in late 1988.  They did not commence exports of the III system until after the embargo against Iraq.

As for oil for food scandal not having anything to do with weapons, I'd suggest you look at the cash funneled through the scandal by the French which provided capital for the Iraqi's to spend on Russian Weapons Systems.  It is also likely how the French weapons arrived in Iraq.

[mensa180]

Great thread, good info.

[CHAPPY]

and now this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_iran_nuclear;_ylt=AolrvwEXk.kKmq9CACZhKmd0fNdF

Do they just want to start a war?

[RTHolmes]

Do they just want to start a war?

"nuclear deterrent"