Author Topic: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...  (Read 4550 times)

Offline Wreked

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #90 on: November 25, 2009, 07:05:53 PM »
Sure has been an increase of dillusional people lately :confused:

LOL - yep - hard to figure how they could be so  wrong about something - they have just as much chance of changing HO's as they do in suggesting teenagers refrain from sex!! - it just ain't gonna happen dude.

They need to get over it and move on...in the mean time it is immensely amusing.


....and the FOREVER Thread.....well it IS good the Universe keeps expanding to make room eh!! :D
HO is a HO is a HO!!
You can lead a donkey to a FACT - you just can't make them think!

cheers eh!!

Offline Bear76

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #91 on: November 25, 2009, 07:11:36 PM »
LOL - yep - hard to figure how they could be so  wrong about something - they have just as much chance of changing HO's as they do in suggesting teenagers refrain from sex!! - it just ain't gonna happen dude.

They need to get over it and move on...in the mean time it is immensely amusing.


....and the FOREVER Thread.....well it IS good the Universe keeps expanding to make room eh!! :D
HO away, it just makes it that much easier for me to kill ya :lol

Offline Wreked

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2009, 07:18:15 PM »
HO away, it just makes it that much easier for me to kill ya :lol

heheh - I'd say something rude to ya but last time I did that to someone - "Steve" - the very next day he handed me my asX - the "silence" from me was DEAFENING!! heheh

Safe skies - I'll try not to be TOO easy for ya!!

...cheers eh! :D

 :bolt:
HO is a HO is a HO!!
You can lead a donkey to a FACT - you just can't make them think!

cheers eh!!

Offline Gabriel

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #93 on: November 25, 2009, 07:19:42 PM »
Seems odd that people see 'HO's as a useless, lame, and easily countered tactic. And yet,,, whine so vociferously against it at every opportunity.

I seem to recall some Shakespeare line about a lady protesting too much,,

Offline 68ZooM

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #94 on: November 25, 2009, 07:35:18 PM »
I've been Ho'd so many times I'm now at the point of doing this..... I see him at 3k heading straight for me then at 2 - 1.5 k ill break hard either left, right, up, or down, IF he puts his nose on me, then i can bet you I'm going to line up and HO you right back and laugh about it, This is a game and theres so many ways of playing it, SOooooo ill just have fun playing the Game, try to HO me ill return the favor 

Very seldom i will find a pilot that will Merge and i find that very refreshing and shows the class of the Pilot  :cheers:
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #95 on: November 25, 2009, 08:36:32 PM »
I've been Ho'd so many times I'm now at the point of doing this..... I see him at 3k heading straight for me then at 2 - 1.5 k ill break hard either left, right, up, or down, IF he puts his nose on me, then i can bet you I'm going to line up and HO you right back and laugh about it, This is a game and theres so many ways of playing it, SOooooo ill just have fun playing the Game, try to HO me ill return the favor 

Very seldom i will find a pilot that will Merge and i find that very refreshing and shows the class of the Pilot  :cheers:
See this is the wrong attitude shared by many that dont understand that the game gets better when you start using ACM to kill someone instead of HOing, ganging, toolshedding...all forms of sweetheartbaggery. If you HO your in the same category as that numbers dude shooting at a plane from 1.5k away, its retarded. More rewards come from getting better at fighting then wasting an opportunity to get better in a fight by just going for the HO.
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Offline 68ZooM

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #96 on: November 25, 2009, 09:29:37 PM »
No its an Attitude of TRYING to have a good time in a Dogfight, you know what that is? equal merge... not guns blazing at 1.5 k out, Pray and Spray going for the HO... i like a good dogfight, hard to do that when its a 30/70 chance of NOT being HO'd, one night i upped, just about 5k out from the base heading to the enemy base with a Hvy Jabbo, 5 P51's were incoming and all of them tried a HO shot on the way into the base had to dodge them like crazy. <<<< Thats my point right there Try a HO and it will be returned.  do i get mad that i get HO'd now?  nope, more to this game.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 09:31:26 PM by 68ZooM »
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Offline Kweassa

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #97 on: November 25, 2009, 10:30:56 PM »
Quote
Seems odd that people see 'HO's as a useless, lame, and easily countered tactic. And yet,,, whine so vociferously against it at every opportunity.

I seem to recall some Shakespeare line about a lady protesting too much,,

Good point.

What also seems odd to me is that many of those who've shown face in this thread preaching anti-HOism, for some strange reason, voraciously object to any suggestions in the Wishlist boards that may effect gameplay or strats in someway that might limit their "freedom to fly whereever they want, whenever they want, in whatever they want."

Apparently, it seems their sense of "freedom" obviously doesn't apply to people who don't fly the way he thinks should be flying.




Offline Shuffler

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #98 on: November 26, 2009, 10:30:31 PM »
Good point.

What also seems odd to me is that many of those who've shown face in this thread preaching anti-HOism, for some strange reason, voraciously object to any suggestions in the Wishlist boards that may effect gameplay or strats in someway that might limit their "freedom to fly whereever they want, whenever they want, in whatever they want."

Apparently, it seems their sense of "freedom" obviously doesn't apply to people who don't fly the way he thinks should be flying.





So many times HOing has been discussed and so many still miss the point.
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S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline bravoa8

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #99 on: November 26, 2009, 10:40:11 PM »
Looks like a pixel game alright. :lol

Offline Yeager

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #100 on: November 26, 2009, 11:04:19 PM »
So many times HOing has been discussed and so many still miss the point.
Lol brother, you aint just kdding there  :t
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Offline Wreked

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #101 on: November 27, 2009, 07:03:01 AM »
So many times HOing has been discussed and so many still miss the point.

Ya Yaeger - as you see above -  doesn't matter how many times you try to explain it to em - THEY just don't have a clue. Their cartoon positon on HO, while perhaps being well intentioned, is just presented  so insultingly - it is sort of sad. While initially I did give a bit of thought to their cartoon complaints - the repeated insults and degrading comments about people who do not play the game THEIR way has totally turned me off from them.

BESIDES - it's ALL cartoon - none of their circle-fight demands are any more realistic than anything else - NONE of this is real so none of it matters except that you should be having fun!!

MY fun may be different than theirs - let em go to the DA and play in the mud - I'll play my way and no one has the right to demand I, or anyone else, must play their way.

Must be the HIGH altitude air in their living room has gone to their heads!! :lol


...and the FOREVER HO thread goes round 'n round eh! :D
« Last Edit: November 27, 2009, 07:04:59 AM by Wreked »
HO is a HO is a HO!!
You can lead a donkey to a FACT - you just can't make them think!

cheers eh!!

Offline Yeager

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #102 on: November 27, 2009, 11:28:57 AM »
Yep.  Shufflers comment was entirely ironic coming from him.  I do appreciate the overall complaints about new people to the game not knowing how to play, or about people not giving a rats bellybutton and/or exploiting the collision model (intentional ramming).  But for me it is this constant whining that head on shots are immoral to attempt, even a snapshot, anywhere on the front quarter, and that two planes in the head on merge should "hold fire".  Take your rules to the DA and go play.  These are the same people that support coding an invincibility bubble around the nose of all airplanes.  Getting HTC to do this would destroy the simulation aspect of this game completely, in its entirety.  That is exactly what they want.  Dumbing the game down to their base level ability to comprehend.  If will fight against it as best I can.

Im not digging in on you Shuff, your a damned good P38 player in game......its just that on this subject you are an easy target  :rock

 :salute

« Last Edit: November 27, 2009, 11:31:03 AM by Yeager »
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline ROX

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #103 on: November 27, 2009, 03:08:25 PM »
Ok clue me in...how is getting shot in the front of the head different from getting shot in the back of the head?  Other than the open casket question, in which case any head shot is likely to close the lid?

MAJOR clues...the odds, and tactics.  

Sure, Boelke's Dicta preached about using many types of advantages (coming in with the sun at your back, ie.) to gain any advantage to get behind your prey for the kill shot(s)...the shot where the enemy is most vulnerable and you are least vulnerable.  The highest odds of getting the kill and not getting killed are based on those tactics.  If you read Manfred von Richthofen's "Der Rot Kampf Flieger" ("The Red Battle Flier"), you will see that his Mentor, Boelke, and later von Richthofen, as a squadron leader kept as close an eye on their pilots (especially rookie pilots) as well as fighting their own battles to see if they were following the teachings of the dicta...and who was getting killed by not.  The odds, however, were far less in surviving a head-on vs head-on attack, as von Richthofen found out personally.

A dogfight is much like gambling.  Depending on the game (aircraft), how much each person (pilot) is educated at the game (dogfighting experience), being aware of what is going on at the table (Situational Awareness), how experienced a gambler is at playing that game (pilot training)--you can come up with odds on just how risky a bet (tactical maneuver) actually is.  All of Boelka's Dicta (and his later surviving commanders teachings) was an attempt to stack all available odds in their favor--as well as avoiding very high risk moves.

He also understood that the head-on was at times completely unavoidable as both an offensive and defensive move once the attack was underway as well as if one finds one self having to fight multiple attackers simultaneously.  This was not so much expressed in print by von Richthofen--but more by the surviving pilots accounts after the war.  Hermann Goering inherited von Richthofen's Jasta after his death and until the end of the war.  von Richthoffen confided much in his brother Lothar as well as his adjutant Karl Bodenschatz.


ROX

PS--During WWII, US and Japanese pilots routinely used the HO.  The US pilots believed that their planes with multiple .50 cals would give them an advantage, and the Japanese believed their 20mm's cannons gave them the advantage.  In the present day, even though missle technology has taken old fashioned "dogfighting" aout of much of the equasion, they are still taught Boelke's Dicta in the classroom.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2009, 03:18:06 PM by ROX »

Offline Yeager

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Re: A tactic as old as flight simming itself...
« Reply #104 on: November 27, 2009, 03:16:24 PM »
MAJOR clues...the odds, and tactics.  
PS--During WWII, US and Japanese pilots routinely used the HO.  The US pilots believed that their planes with multiple .50 cals would give them an advantage, and the Japanese believed their 20mm's gave them the advantage.  In the present day, even though missle technology has taken old fashioned "dogfighting" aout of much of the equasion, they are still taught Boelke's Dicta in the classroom.

Good post.  Well written and expressed.  The point I was trying to get to as in "clue me in" was that after the fact, after the bullet has entered your head and killed you, it simply does not matter WHERE that bullet came from.  Tactics and strategy play their role in deciding how you are put in a position to kill or be killed, not some stoopid childish AH dicta that planes should NOT fire during a particular moment in any engagement.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns