P-47M & N !! Gimme,gimme,gimme!!

[GRUNHERZ]

Its a tossup for me, on one hand some P47M had0 that cool dark blue or black paint jobd while on the the P47N is a better more useful plane all around.  either one would be great and should cost around what a Tempest does.

Bring either one to AH very soon HTC! Or else.  

[Furious]

but if you're gonna model 4 109's and 4 190's, why not add another Jug?  

This is sort of a disengenuous statement.  The LW only had 2 single engine fighter variants, the Me109's and Fw190's.  These are represented in AH by 9 aircraft.  The US had many single engine fighter variants and they are represented in AH by the P-51 (2), P-47 (3), F4U (4), F6F (1) for a total of 10 aircraft.  Pretty even.  

But, as you can see HT can't add to the  LW single engine fighter stable without it being a 109 or 190.

Eventually, I hope that AH will have every variant that saw significant numbers produced or saw action or is just plain interesting.  I hope we get both the "N" and the "M", as well as many others.


F.

[eddiek]

Furious, what I was referring to was something I seem to remember Pyro saying, which was almost literally that he did not want to do another model of the P47.
HTC is known for modelling planes others don't.  Any WW2 sim has to have the normal "staple" planes, the 109's, 190's, P51, Spits, etc;  I have not seen another sim that has modeled the P47M, and I think it would be another star in HTC's crown if they added it.

[Am0n]

Sounds great! i want to fly that monster  

[ra]

The jugs we have now are already late war aircraft, and they do pretty well in the MA.  There are sooo many other aircraft we need which were more significant in the war. We should save some of these uber planes for after we have filled out the planeset.

ra

[Vector]

S!

Furious statement sounds reasonable as well as ra's. I agree there's many interesting planes to model before P47M & N, but I'd like to see either in AH asap.
What comes to P-47's success in MA, I think it's not so great. There are some squads that are dedicated to P-47's (     ), but after all it's not doing so great:
Tour 23 k/d's so far:
D-11: 1.04 (770/735)
D-25: 0.95 (1633/1714)
D-30: 0.75 (4509/5992) (used much on jabo missions, tho)

Ok, we can make an agreement;
1. HTC makes 1x P-38
2. HTC makes P-47 M or N
We can add these both in ver 1.09.
Fine, sounds like a deal, ok Pyro, you have our permission to start making P-47M or N (we'll let you decide, after all we're not ungrateful tards).
   

EDIT: And I still can't figure out why model D-25 and D-30? Why not just modify either to M or N?


--------------------
vector
XO 348th FG "Kearby's Thunderbolts"

[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: vector ]

[GRUNHERZ]

They should model a Fiat G55 or Re2005 if they really wanna diffrent, and P47N would be more diffrent lokking than a P47M.

Frankly im gonna throw a fit if those three arent in 1.09.    

[mrsid2]

The D30 is deadly enough, no need for another jug. It would be perked probably anyway then.

More variety is better than 12 different jugs IMO. And don't take me wrong I love flying the thing..

[-ammo-]

I think either the M or N would make fine additions to the AH planeset. Both were awesome AC and would compete well in the arena. I hope to see either one of these planes.

[Karnak]

Compete well?

Yeesh, 505mph isn't "compete", its "dominate".  

A 4,400ft per minute climb rate at 20,000ft is staggering in a WWII fighter.

All these numbers would indicate that the P-47 was the best, bar none, no competition, fighter of WWII.  With numbers like those I don't see why people would ever mention the Spit XIV, Fw190D-9, P-51D or F4U-4.  It would be blindingly obvious which fighter was best and there would be no debates about the issue.

Maybe you're getting that I am a little skeptical of these numbers.  Well, I am.  I wonder if people are quoting test machines, one offs and custom tweaks to the P-47M/N?

If the performance numbers were really that good, why is it so hidden from the WWII aviation community?

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Karnak:
Compete well?

Yeesh, 505mph isn't "compete", its "dominate".  

A 4,400ft per minute climb rate at 20,000ft is staggering in a WWII fighter.

All these numbers would indicate that the P-47 was the best, bar none, no competition, fighter of WWII.  With numbers like those I don't see why people would ever mention the Spit XIV, Fw190D-9, P-51D or F4U-4.  It would be blindingly obvious which fighter was best and there would be no debates about the issue.

Maybe you're getting that I am a little skeptical of these numbers.  Well, I am.  I wonder if people are quoting test machines, one offs and custom tweaks to the P-47M/N?

If the performance numbers were really that good, why is it so hidden from the WWII aviation community?

And your skepticism is well founded. Those numbers are a little high. Now keep in mind that that TS for the M is at 30K and I believe a little high. I got references (I aint gonna dig them out now, but later) that if I recall the TS is more like 480 at alt. Still very respectable.  But at low alt the AC would not dominate.  The M has *very* short legs, but that is the reason it had such good numbers. All the weight savings. The N is a very good AC with lots of range.  Range in AH is not a big factor, well in the MA anyway.  You just cater your sorties around your range limitation. Ask folks like eagler who drive 109F's, and other LA5 drivers

And that Climbrate...hmmm those are the highest numbers I have seen to date.  Now I doi recall 4000+ at sea level for a light M, and a very respectable 3000+ climbrate at 20K. Then again I need to get the bodie book out. Its Christmas day though...

[Vector]

S!

Yes ammo, those climbrates were for XP-47J as Sancho and Daff stated above, my bad. M and N had much lower numbers.


From Baugher's website:
P-47M-1-RE: maximum speed 400 mph at 10,000 feet, 453 mph at at 25,000 feet, and 470 mph at 30,000 feet. Initial climb rate was 3500 feet per minute at 5000 feet and 2650 feet per minute at 20,000 feet
P-47N-5-RE maximum speed 397 mph at 10,000 feet, 448 mph at at 25,000 feet, and 460 mph at 30,000 feet. Initial climb rate was 2770 feet per minute at 5000 feet and 2550 feet per minute at 20,000 feet

EDIT: Btw, the 505mph tops speed for P-47N was found from Cavanaugh Flight Museum web site. Uh oh, you can't trust to nobody on these days..
 


--------------------
vector
XO 348th FG "Kearby's Thunderbolts"

[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: vector ]

[Buzzbait]

S!

Personally I think we need the Razorback with the paddle blade prop.  P-47D21 would do nicely.  This aircraft was crucial in WWII.  In actuality, if the BIG WEEK scenario had been historically based, there would have been 80% Razorback Jugs with paddle blades on the Allied side, and 20% P-51's and P-38's.  The Razorback Jug was THE key to victory over the Luftwaffe in the Battle over Germany in January to May '44 when the really important clashes took place.

The 200 production P-47M was insignificant in its effect in comparison.

The P-47N was definitely useful in the Pacific, and was produced in considerable numbers, but it wasn't an aircraft on which the outcome of an airwar rested.  By the time it was in service, the Japanese were not in a position to contest the supremacy of the air over Japan.

[Vermillion]

Contrary to popular belief the P-47N was very significant in WWII.

It was more significant than the Me109-K4, the Fw190-D9, and the Spit XIV.  All aircraft that the common players know and love and think are very important.

In fact it was more significant than the K4 and the D9 combined.  

Its just that the Jug was never very glamoress, and it participated in a part of the war that "was already won". Which is horseshit, since the casulties during late 1944 and 1945 in the Pacific were some of the highest of the war.

Read up on the history of the P-47N, you might be suprised.

I know I was.  

[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: Vermillion ]

[gripen]

Hm... The Spitfire XIV reached combat at spring  1944, the Bf 109K4 late 1944 as well as the D9, the P-47N reached combat at may 1945. In the 8th AF  the P-51 was more numerous than the P-47 from May 1944 and from July the P-51 was more numerous than the P-47 and P-38 together.

gripen