109 flight model

[thorsim]

yea it was a "virtual" profile for a "virtual" squad, the jg27 logo i made myself and never existed historically to my knowlege ...

I would imagine that's simply a made up paint scheme, as it has a JG 301 Reichsverteidigung band, Eastern/Balkan front wingtip markings, JG 27 unit insignia on the cowling, and air to ground kill markings on the rudder despite the lack of an ETC rack or markings of a Jabostaffel.

It is an F- the tell-tale signs being the glazed section of fuselage below the windscreen, fuel filler point below the cockpit (moved to the spine of the tail behind the cockpit in the G series), strengthening struts where the tail attaches to the tail plane, and shallow oil cooler.

It's definitely NOT a G-14, due to the things previously mentioned, the lack of bulges for MG 131's, neither an Erla Haube canopy or an extended vertical stabilizer/rudder (not tell-tale but unlikely for a G-14), the radio mast and the retractable tail wheel (last aircraft built with this were late production G-2's until it was reintroduced in the K series)

[Bolt64]

IL2 planes all fly the same ??  whoever said that retarded crap needs to lay off the crackpipe NOW  , I fly both sims alot & I can tell you this ...Axis planes fly better in Il2 & Allied planes fly better in AH .... whats funny about every plane in AH ? all the controls on every plane is trimmable ..thats inaccurate ..109's & 190's did NOT have trimmable ailerons nor rudders among others.., plane overheat at full power settings for an extended time are not set accurate for AH , you run a piston engine plane in RL at full power for an extended period and it WILL overheat . MW50 boost for 109's..you can
kick it in at full power and it won't wreck the engine ..wrong ,  read a translated 109 manual and it states specifically NOT to engage WEP at full throttle . there are several other issues too but hey I'm not going to just pick on AH ..IL2 has its issues ... .50 cal. DM not accurate ....not able to select fuel tanks .. kills the P51 in lo alt turn fights , P-47 DM not accurate , she can't take alot of damage and still fly  . We can go on & on but heres the problem with ANY sim that mass produces planes ..most developers are not going to tweak the FM's or DM's of each single plane to their exact spec , unless it's just grossly fubar . 

my .03 cents

Bolt

[Stoney]

...my .03 cents...

Oh boy....   

[BrownBaron]

IL2 planes all fly the same ??  whoever said that retarded crap needs to lay off the crackpipe NOW  , I fly both sims alot & I can tell you this ...Axis planes fly better in Il2 & Allied planes fly better in AH .... whats funny about every plane in AH ? all the controls on every plane is trimmable ..thats inaccurate ..109's & 190's did NOT have trimmable ailerons nor rudders among others.., plane overheat at full power settings for an extended time are not set accurate for AH , you run a piston engine plane in RL at full power for an extended period and it WILL overheat . MW50 boost for 109's..you can
kick it in at full power and it won't wreck the engine ..wrong ,  read a translated 109 manual and it states specifically NOT to engage WEP at full throttle . there are several other issues too but hey I'm not going to just pick on AH ..IL2 has its issues ... .50 cal. DM not accurate ....not able to select fuel tanks .. kills the P51 in lo alt turn fights , P-47 DM not accurate , she can't take alot of damage and still fly  . We can go on & on but heres the problem with ANY sim that mass produces planes ..most developers are not going to tweak the FM's or DM's of each single plane to their exact spec , unless it's just grossly fubar . 

my .03 cents

Bolt

A great first post....

[PanosGR]

Agree Bolt said it right. The most common remark coming from AH players is that IL2 planes fly the same. agree about the crap remark. Among the major deficiency's as it concern AH i think is the complete  engine "carefree handling" .

[Bolt64]

Oh I forgot ...auto-pilot and auto climb enabled for all planes in AH ? ...lets see who knows if this is accurate too or is it  just another care free at ease function for the  ones who claim AH is the most accurate flight sim  , I'm done making points because we'd be here all day with BOTH sims ..I like AH too for quick fun arcade fighting with all my enemies flying around with big red tags on em . I like IL2 when I want to take a combat flightsim more ..seriously .. 


party on Garth 

Bolt

[PanosGR]

to be accurate there is no auto-pilot in AH. Only "auto keep attitude" concern the flight level and auto climb which is not as bad as it maybe looks for someone coming for other sims. it really relax you before the fight. I have no complains for auto-trim also cause trimming the plane during the fight is a difficult task. My concerns has to do more with the "light" controls on all aircraft's, except maybe Ta 152, i mean they look like flying or "move" into the air sometimes like RC models and not like the real planes. But that is just a feeling. Let us not forget that RL WWII planes had mechanical controls and not fly-by-wire like ALL sims have.

[SgtPappy]

IL-2? Fun but, where did all the extra fuel in my Spitfire VIII go? 

[Saurdaukar]

Oh I forgot ...auto-pilot and auto climb enabled for all planes in AH ?

That's not really the core of the issue.  The core of the issue is flight modeling.

Autopilot, auto trim - hell, even trim for some planes that didn't have it - all these things exist in AH to make it just a tad more user friendly.  The lack of proper engine management is also an example of this.

In terms of strict authenticity, IL2 is the better game, I agree (and I adore IL2's gunnery system).

However, in terms of "flight models" there is really no comparison for me.  In AH, even the individual variants of the same A/C have clearly definable and noticeable characteristics.

In IL2, I do not find this to be the case.  To me, in IL2, every plane feels, at its core, exactly the same.  Each has the same exact reaction to inputs; differentiated only by airspeed.

The IL2 flight model is "bland."  The one thing that HTC has done so well - and it's largely an unheralded achievement - is that they have given the player a real sense of weight and inertia.  By comparison, IL2 planes all feel weightless to me. 

While that may sound rather off-the-wall, I think its a key difference and its what many people cant quite put their finger on when they ask themselves what IL2's FM is lacking.

[Chalenge]

  read a translated 109 manual and it states specifically NOT to engage WEP at full throttle .

Bolt

Here is the manual for the Bf 109 K4 (Flugzeug Handbuch). Please show me where it says this.

http://www.4shared.com/file/184141394/b6bd58fc/Bf_109_K4_Flugzeug_Handbuch.html

[Karnak]

Bolt,

Not all aircraft overheat like that.  In IL2 if you run at wep for even a short time, your engine will break.  It is complete BS and, if anything, even gamier than the method AH uses.  Read some history instead of just manuals.

[Lusche]

Here is the manual for the Bf 109 K4 (Flugzeug Handbuch). Please show me where it says this.

Actually it's only a small part of the manual: Part 9A (General Equipment). More interesting would be parts 6, 7, and 7B.
Further more, this is not an operating manual. It's mainly for the ground crews, showing location of specific parts of equipments, giving assembly instructions and such.

[Bolt64]

Hey  , I don't wanna get in a  bash session with anyone about which sim is better which seems to be where this topic is headed before it gets locked  , both have its fan base and rightfully so ..I play both and have a good time with each . I have read  many Aviation Books  ( just like some of you who have a strong interest in WW2 Aviation ) thru out the years and read many accounts of Air combat , the planes that were flown and their " characteristics " or history as  Karnak has  stated , BOTH sims have their issues that we would like to be addressed .. I can post links of captured Axis aircraft test for those that are uneducated but all you have to do folks..is research it online or in books..its all there .. great stuff if you want to pour the time into it ..I'm an ol Air Warrior vet , been playing this stuff since '94 ( with an exception of a trip to sunny Iraq ) I love flightsims as its probably the closest I can get to flying ( $11k  to get your pilots license here - full rating ) and anytime when a new flightsim comes along I look into it and if its a realistic sim like I prefer , I'll buy it , I want to keep these PC based sims going for a long time . If I PO'ed anyone ..hey my bad . Anyone can tell you that knows me on the IL2 side will vouch for how we have tried to get planes like the default P-51 FM changed , and only now since the mods have came in ..new variants with shall we say.. a better FM have been fielded . Works are in progress and hopefully both sims will just keep on getting better .


P.S.  Karnak  , I fly IL2 servers like Spit v 109 , Zeke v Wildcat and other full real servers in Hyperlobby and I have yet
to have any issues with engaging WEP for a time period and locking the motor up ..what AV gas are you using ? is your mechanics
Polish conscripts ?  using Valvoline ?
  Bolt

[Chalenge]

Actually it's only a small part of the manual: Part 9A (General Equipment). More interesting would be parts 6, 7, and 7B.
Further more, this is not an operating manual. It's mainly for the ground crews, showing location of specific parts of equipments, giving assembly instructions and such.

Snail!  Dont make me post 294 pages of each variant... can you translate? 

[Lusche]

Snail!  Dont make me post 294 pages of each variant... can you translate? 

I can read it and translate & post the corresponding passages... if you have the operating manual