Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)

[CAP1]

sgt pappy as educated by HTC and the cartoon experts here, getting squashed outside of cartoon land for echoing the same stuff i questioned when i entered this thread ...

i agree that thread was very amusing ...


it was bosco and a f4u this time, much like st pappy on the other board ...

and THAT is why i posted that link to the 109 cockpit vid.........

[thorsim]

maybe because it is a game where flap engineering is not determined by nationality ...

He's not banned in the IL2 forums, but I think that's due to the location of his head on Oleg's lap.


ack-ack

[thorsim]

and THAT is why i posted that link to the 109 cockpit vid.........

and the connection is?

[Ack-Ack]

maybe because it is a game where flap engineering is not determined by nationality ...

Other than the lame auto-retracting feature, what is wrong with the flaps?  You have yet to show any evidence that any of the flaps for any plane is modeled incorrectly. 

Do you need a new shovel?  I'm sure the one you've been using has grown dull by now.

ack-ack

[BnZs]

Yes, we must keep in mind that the lack of turning ability that was really the only major flaw of the 190 airframe was not as big a deal to them as it is to us with our tendency to want to "pwn" people in all-out-1-v-1s.

if i'm remembering correctly, he liked its handling a LOT. it rolled like a sunofasqueak. it climbed incredibly. it turned better than most think. its guns package was nice.
 i think he said he felt it was at least equal to his mustang, and that with equal pilot skills, the loser would be the one to make the first mistake.

don't take this as a shot against the mustangs....and don't take this as he feared nothing when he flew, as he did.

 i wish this guy was still with us, as he was a cool ole guy. it was amazing when he started talking, as there'd be about 20 of us gathered around him, including young kids.
 

[WMLute]

Other than the lame auto-retracting feature, what is wrong with the flaps?  You have yet to show any evidence that any of the flaps for any plane is modeled incorrectly.  

Do you need a new shovel?  I'm sure the one you've been using has grown dull by now.

ack-ack

He is saying that the flaps are wrong in AcesHigh because Crump said so on (yet another) a forum he got banned from.


(edit: and btw you can find almost the same discussion here on the AH BBS about flap types and usage.  Thread was @ a year ago and prob. could be found with a simple search.  Good stuff in that thread.  YOU won't understand it, but good stuff none the less)

[thorsim]

there modeled correctly if nationality is your criteria ...

you find my actual requests yet ?

Other than the lame auto-retracting feature, what is wrong with the flaps?  You have yet to show any evidence that any of the flaps for any plane is modeled incorrectly. 

Do you need a new shovel?  I'm sure the one you've been using has grown dull by now.

ack-ack

[Masherbrum]

I hope you haven't bred yet.   

[cattb]

if i read this thread correct somone (thorism)is asking for a fight between a 109 and 51 , you keep talking about wieght and turning,
not sure what else?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuBiMM7VGh8
Theroism this is for you but you have yet to prove anything at all

except

[CAP1]

Wow, that is great that you personally talked to him and he openly talked about is service in the P-51, epically on flying 190.  

Most people do not know this.  By 1944, German had at most 110 flying hours in training before going into combat.  By the time U.S. pilot was put into combat, he got up to 400 hours of training.   So i can imagine that most of the 190s he fought against had pilots that had vary little training and most likely still new.  It is hard to say what the out come would have been if German pilots had over 300 hours of training before put into combat.

that, i think was one of his points.

i never told him about the fw pilots i met in florida when i went there for my neices birthday......but they said the exact same things about the fw's that he did.

he was a good man, and we all miss him at the club.

 we've lost him, and we lost joe the year before. joe was a top turret gunner on a b17. we still have tom, who was also a pony driver. he's hard to get started talking. once we get him going though, it's awsome to listen.
 

[Baumer]

Thorsim,
I hope that you take this in the spirit it is intended, I just spent the better part of an hour scanning a text book in for you that explains (in detail) calculating turn performance. If these equations are good enough for companies like Boeing and Airbus to predict new aircraft performance within 1% they should be good enough for you.

This is from "Aircraft Perfomance" by W. Austyn Mair and David L. Birdsall, Cambridge University Press.   



Page 215
Page 216
Page 217
Page 218
Page 219
Page 220
Page 221
Page 222
Page 223
Page 224
Page 225
Page 226
Page 227
Page 228

To sum it up look at the equations on page 224



So please stop the grammatical gymnastics, and clearly state your positions and respond directly when someone asks you for clarification of your statements.

[CAP1]

and the connection is?

if you  cannot move your stick to its full deflection, you  cannot iniate a rapid roll. you need to roll before you can turn. if you cannot get to the correct bank angle as fast as the opponent, then he will out turn you. even if only for a couple of turns, but he will.


 and so ya know, i don't say any of this because i don't like the axis aircraft. infact, i think they're beautiful, and i think they were far ahead of their time in a lot of areas.

 but...i say it like i see it.

[thorsim]

correct me if i am wrong but that was the first time that guy was in the cockpit of a 109 correct?

he never flew it in the video or before correct?

would you let me post something similar as proof of anything if it were a 38?

proves nothing but that the 109 was a small aircraft with a small cockpit?  

i am curious where i ever suggested it was not small?

lots of guys had more success than any other guys ever in the history of air combat, hard to believe it was too cramped to be able to fly effectively don't you think.

if you  cannot move your stick to its full deflection, you  cannot iniate a rapid roll. you need to roll before you can turn. if you cannot get to the correct bank angle as fast as the opponent, then he will out turn you. even if only for a couple of turns, but he will.


 and so ya know, i don't say any of this because i don't like the axis aircraft. infact, i think they're beautiful, and i think they were far ahead of their time in a lot of areas.

 but...i say it like i see it.

[CAP1]

correct me if i am wrong but that was the first time that guy was in the cockpit of a 109 correct?

he never flew it in the video or before correct?

would you let me post something similar as proof of anything if it were a 38?

proves nothing but that the 109 was a small aircraft with a small cockpit?  

i am curious where i ever suggested it was not small?

lots of guys had more success than any other guys ever in the history of air combat, hard to believe it was too cramped to be able to fly effectively don't you think.

not only would i look at it, but i'd welcome it.


it;'s not that it's small. you're either changing the argument again, or mis-understanding.

you were saying that the 109 should out turn the corsair, right?

 re-read my post about the stick deflection. THAT by itself would give the corsair driver the advantage. even if only for a moment.


also remember...as i and others have stated in other threads. we aren't fighting for our lives. a lot of us experiment with things that the real aircraft more than likely was capable of, but could put it in jeapordy of getting home.
 the real pilots only did what was necessary to do their jobs to the best of their abilities, and get home to see their friends and families that day.

[thorsim]

no, my original point here is that the best most advantageous way for a f4u to fight a 109 is by using it's speed and speed retention advantage ...

i do think the 109s best fight advantage is the maneuver fight over the f4u ...

in both the game and TRW ...

i think the 109 maneuvers better than the hog through the vast majority of their respective envelopes and would expect the 109 to be the clearly superior maneuver fighter.  

hence my initial reaction to the premise that the reverse were true.

as far as the video goes you are assuming a lot from a guys first five minutes in a cockpit of a plane he has never flown, quite frankly so was he.  would you consider him expert enough to offer a definitive evaluation of the me109?

not only would i look at it, but i'd welcome it.


it;'s not that it's small. you're either changing the argument again, or mis-understanding.

you were saying that the 109 should out turn the corsair, right?

 re-read my post about the stick deflection. THAT by itself would give the corsair driver the advantage. even if only for a moment.


also remember...as i and others have stated in other threads. we aren't fighting for our lives. a lot of us experiment with things that the real aircraft more than likely was capable of, but could put it in jeapordy of getting home.
 the real pilots only did what was necessary to do their jobs to the best of their abilities, and get home to see their friends and families that day.