Is it time to upgrade my Athlon?

[Spikes]

I third the parts, I also use the Mobo and it runs great.

[Skuzzy]

seriously?

you would recommend core2duo vs. amd phenom ii 955?<snip>

Yes, simply because;

1)  Intel multi-core CPU's multi-thread better than AMD.  The scheduler is simply better in the Intel CPU.
2)  Intel motherboard chipsets are also ahead of any AMD motherboard chipset available in the market right now.

It's not just the CPU.  The motherboard chipsets are also a factor.

If you want something that just works.  Intel is the no-brainer choice.

I deal with all manner of computer systems everyday.  By a large margin, the lion share of support issues involve AMD systems, even though the lion share of players playing the game use Intel.

[GlassJaw]

Skuzzy, others,

These two processors are the same price, would the dual core running the slightly higher clock speed or the quad core be a better choice for the game?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115131&Tpk=Intel%20Core2%20Quad%20Q9400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036

[Spikes]

Skuzzy, others,

These two processors are the same price, would the dual core running the slightly higher clock speed or the quad core be a better choice for the game?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115131&Tpk=Intel%20Core2%20Quad%20Q9400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036

You'd be better off with the dual. IIRC Skuzzy told me the game won't utilize anythnig over 2 cores.

[Dragon]

For most games, 2 cores at higher speed is better than 4 at slower.

[skribetm]

1)  Intel multi-core CPU's multi-thread better than AMD.  The scheduler is simply better in the Intel CPU.
2)  Intel motherboard chipsets are also ahead of any AMD motherboard chipset available in the market right now.

1. its hard to refute anything you say because there is no data or evidence to support any of said statements.
2. by "ahead" do you mean features(USB3.0/SATA III?)? data speed/latency? bandwidth?
3. scheduler resides in the operating system, not the cpu die. maybe you mean the front-end decoders?
4. is AH2 compiled with ICC? VisualC++? Open64?
5. intel compilers have string identifiers that enable the most efficient codepath if "GenuineIntel" is detected in CPUID string,
and otherwise if "AuthenticAMD" is in it. Maybe thats the cause for disproportionately higher tech calls on AMD systems?

i've had an E7200(my last intel cpu) and it was severely limited at the front-side bus, resulting in this and other games being "choppy."
that is why i certainly recommend integrated memory controllers, if not on the phenoms/athlons, then certainly on the nehalems.

since the purchasing decision has been made, i'd say good luck with the build, anyway.  
but for the money, it could have been a better system, and capable of a drop-in six-core(2010) or eight-core(2011) amd cpu's in the future, without having to change motherboards or ddram.

[Skuzzy]

Pardon the loose use of the word "scheduler".  In proper context.  The current generation of Intel CPU's are more efficient in a multi-threaded environment than AMD.  They work better with the current schedulers in Windows and Linux.

Intel motherboard chipsets are simply more stable and robust.  Intel has had far more years of work on those chipsets.  I have dealt with far too many NVidia and VIA based problems over the years.  While Intel can goof from time to time, they are quick to point out the error and just as quick to provide a work-around.  I cannot say the same thing about VIA or NVidia.

Aces High is compiled with Visual Studio with no favor to any particular brand of CPU.

One more time.  I get to deal with many customers everyday.  The largest percentage of computer issues I deal with are centered around an AMD CPU based system.  This is not a reflection on the CPU itself.  It is a reflection on the mother board chipsets, although AMD did FUBAR the multi-core clock implementations which caused us no end of problems.  Even the work around, supplied by AMD, so we could work reliably in a multi-core AMD environment is not stable with all of their CPU's.

If you want something stable and robust, Intel is the way to go.

GlassJaw, higher clock rate is better than more cores for most applications.  If you do a lot of video encoding, you might want more then two cores.  Quad cores at lower clocks will run most applications slower than a higher clocked dual-core.

Aces High is natively multi-threaded and runs best on a high speed dual core CPU.

[GlassJaw]

Thanks for the help guys.  Parts are ordered.

GlassJaw, higher clock rate is better than more cores for most applications.  If you do a lot of video encoding, you might want more then two cores.  Quad cores at lower clocks will run most applications slower than a higher clocked dual-core.

Aces High is natively multi-threaded and runs best on a high speed dual core CPU.

[skribetm]

Aces High is compiled with Visual Studio with no favor to any particular brand of CPU.

One more time.  I get to deal with many customers everyday.  The largest percentage of computer issues I deal with are centered around an AMD CPU based system.  This is not a reflection on the CPU itself.  It is a reflection on the mother board chipsets, although AMD did FUBAR the multi-core clock implementations which caused us no end of problems.  Even the work around, supplied by AMD, so we could work reliably in a multi-core AMD environment is not stable with all of their CPU's.

If you want something stable and robust, Intel is the way to go.

i commend HTC for a really great game, and you for your endless patience in customer service.
having said that i see no way a core2duo E8500 (the subject here)would outperform the phenom ii 955be in playing Aces High 2.
i only have a b.s. electronics engineering degree and was in the cpu business (toshiba) for a while back then,
but have consistently followed microarchitecture development even when i quit the cpu business and now
about to practice law (intellectual property law, soon). so i know a good architecture when i review one.

even the independent per-core dynamic clocking of the older phenoms were not the fault of amd per se, but of the
less than intelligent windows scheduler(failing to bump up core speed, thread core-hopping)- a proper scheduler would have
assigned/pinned single threads to a single core while bumping core speed. windows scheduler however, did not implement it that way.
the per-core dynamic clocking feature was ahead of it's time hardware/microarchitecture-wise, and obviously software was late.

re: this purchase, the socket 775 platform is indeed end-of-life, and purchasing an EOL platform is a waste of money specially since newer
games/software(DX11) will efficiently make use of more than -two- cores. by end of next year, two cores will be the -new- single cores, if they arent already.

[Skuzzy]

I too am a EE.  You keep missing the point.  It is not just about the CPU.  And yes, the Windows scheduler sucks.  That is pretty much given.

I could care less about the CPU at this point.  My concern is the system.  Not any one single component of the system.  When I say "Intel", I am thinking of the entire system, not just the CPU.

While the 775 socket is on its way out, it still represents a good value if you are not concerned about updating your computer for another few years.  I too went with the 775 socket.  I figure by the time I am ready to replace it, there will be yet another socket available.

[Dragon]

re: this purchase, the socket 775 platform is indeed end-of-life, and purchasing an EOL platform is a waste of money specially since newer
games/software(DX11) will efficiently make use of more than -two- cores. by end of next year, two cores will be the -new- single cores, if they arent already.

The OP had more than enough information included in it for us to offer our advice for a "cheap" trouble free upgrade to run Aces High.  In keeping with that theme, the route that we directed Glassjaw to take is the right one at this time.  Maybe in a year or 2 he may want to do a complete build and I'm sure he will once again consider the use of the new AMD processors at that time.

[skribetm]

I too am a EE.  You keep missing the point.  It is not just about the CPU.  And yes, the Windows scheduler sucks.  That is pretty much given.

I could care less about the CPU at this point.  My concern is the system.  Not any one single component of the system.  When I say "Intel", I am thinking of the entire system, not just the CPU.

While the 775 socket is on its way out, it still represents a good value if you are not concerned about updating your computer for another few years.  I too went with the 775 socket.  I figure by the time I am ready to replace it, there will be yet another socket available.

1. i believe i addressed the issue of chipsets when i posted about the fsb bottleneck. i've played AH2 on the E7200(when it first came out), Athlon II and Phenom II, and im only trying to differentiate the gaming experience among the three(well mostly between phenom II and core2duo). also, i have not had any issues with any of the 790GX, 790FX, SB710 or SB750 chipsets, windows 7 pro automatically detected everything and i didnt have to use any third-party cd for the sound, NIC, graphics or the motherboard. most likely the amd issues were on chipsets with nvidia controllers.

2. as for newer sockets, socket 1366 looks like it will also support 6core/12thread core i9 "gulftown." and it is a more complete implementation than the value (but neutered) socket 1156(which doesnt support 2xPCIE2.0 x16, only 2xPCIE 2.0 x8).

3. and yet when he upgrades again, he would need to pick up another* motherboard, most likely another set of ram sticks too, in addition to the cpu. when all i am saying is, if he went phenom II, he wouldnt have to upgrade and if he had to, he only needs to change processors and thats it. a much cheaper way to manage platform upgrades, since socket AM3 will support six/eight core processors up to the 2012 lineup at least, while LGA775 is EOL 2009.

i'm just trying to reason out, i hope the logic is well received. 

[Irwink!]

Brand zealots... It's closely akin to a religion for many. I've run into them all my life be the subject amateur radio, motorcycycles or computers. It's an excercise in futility trying to argue logic with them.

[Skuzzy]

Brand zealots... It's closely akin to a religion for many. I've run into them all my life be the subject amateur radio, motorcycycles or computers. It's an excercise in futility trying to argue logic with them.

I agree, but who are you trying to hang that tag on?

Skrib, I am glad you have not had any problems.  Now, sit in my chair for a week, and when you find you have little hair left, you will understand why I suggest Intel for the moment.

[skribetm]

I agree, but who are you trying to hang that tag on?

Skrib, I am glad you have not had any problems.  Now, sit in my chair for a week, and when you find you have little hair left, you will understand why I suggest Intel for the moment.

you still have a lot of hair skuzzy. i think you're doing very well in that chair. 
i hope to meet all of you someday in dallas con and have fun with laser-equipped sharks!