What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?

[RufusLeaking]

There are different kind of skills and different kinds of fun that different people value. Tolerance seems to be one of the most difficult skills in this game.

Well said.

One skill I admire in the MA is good wingmenship (made that word up.)

[mtnman]

I think the 1 on 1 better "proves" your skill over a given opponent for the most part.  Especially because you can control many of the variables that occur in the MA, and rule those out.  Of course, everyone has "hot" and "off" days.

I've just never found those 1 on 1 duel-type fights to be very interesting or stimulating.  I'm bored in the DA by the time the game loads and I can see who's on the roster.  Win or lose, ho-hum, I'm not all that interested...

Multi-kill hops in the MA require a different set of skills, and for me are infinitely more stimulating and interesting, and make me try harder to beat my opponent and land some kills.  Having ten kills in my pocket makes me try harder to not die than having 1 or none does.  I consider my "life" more "valuable" when I have kills to land.  That doesn't make me timid, since I'm also greedy (landing 11-12 is better than 10!) and conceited (LOL, no way will that high spit get me!  I'm MtnMan!  Come 'ere you dirty varmint!  Lemme take your pelt!).

I've always seen duels as "warm-up" for the "real event" (MA), and as such I don't care much about victory/defeat in the DA.  But, again, even though I don't find duels exciting, I do think they "prove" skill over a select opponent in a way you can't often replicate in the MA.

I need the constantly varying engagements of the MA to keep me interested.  Is my next fight going to be "fair", advantaged, disadvantaged, against a slower or faster plane, better turner, worse turner 1 v 1, or 1 v many?  Who knows!  Just wondering makes me want to log on!

[BnZs]

The made that sacrifice in R/L because above all, in R/L THE PILOT DOES NOT WISH TO DIE!!! EVER!!!! A real pilot would not be satisfied with a k/d of 100-1. His K/D *must* be something-0.

But in a *game* where you are scored not just on kills/death, but also on kills/sortie, kills/time, and hit%, alot different considerations for what makes a "great" plane apply. And that is not even considering "fun" factor.

I'm not saying the P-51 is a bad MA plane, but...I've flown the P-51, I've flown the competition, and I can see nothing about it that makes the Mustang clearly superior to the competition. The D9 is faster, climbs better, accelerates better, rolls better, has lots of cannon...it is in fact clearly the better high k/d pick machine. The K4 is faster than the Pony, faster than anything 5-25K in fact, climbs like a raped ape, and is maneuverable enough to whomp most other planes in a knock-down drag out. The Typh has ungodly Hispano firepower and is actually faster than the Pony down low. And lets not even get into what the P-47M brings to the table vs. the P-51...

Furthermore, as for "speed uber alles"...I've flown the 262 abit. Frankly, I don't find it much fun. It is difficult to attack fighters and attacking bombers tends to get it damaged. I suppose the average player could fly it very "safely" and rack up a monstrous k/d but I suspect one's k/t would get way low and one's eyes might fall out from boredom.

Top speed, in any kind of 'realistic' scenario, is probably the single most significant factor in combat aircraft.
The P51 is the best aircraft for BnZ work, period, because it has great loiter time, great top speed, great high speed maneuverability, awesome visibility, and a good gun package for high speed work. I can't imagine what else you'd want.

Unless I'm misunderstanding why throughout the history of combat aviation aircraft have sacrificed maneuverability for speed at every opportunity. (in a very general sense of course )

[FiLtH]

1 on 1

[grizz441]

I'm not saying the P-51 is a bad MA plane, but...I've flown the P-51, I've flown the competition, and I can see nothing about it that makes the Mustang clearly superior to the competition. The D9 is faster, climbs better, accelerates better, rolls better, has lots of cannon...it is in fact clearly the better high k/d pick machine.

Visibility is worse, ballistics much more difficult to consistently connect with.  It should probably be Eny 10 though.

The K4 is faster than the Pony, faster than anything 5-25K in fact, climbs like a raped ape, and is maneuverable enough to whomp most other planes in a knock-down drag out.

Visibility is poor, turnability is average, ballistics are extremely difficult.  I'm also pretty sure the Typh, La7, D9 are all faster.  The P51D and K4 are too close to call on deck cruise speeds.

The Typh has ungodly Hispano firepower and is actually faster than the Pony down low.

I agree, Typh should be Eny 5.

And lets not even get into what the P-47M brings to the table vs. the P-51...

Ok.

Furthermore, as for "speed uber alles"...I've flown the 262 abit. Frankly, I don't find it much fun. It is difficult to attack fighters and attacking bombers tends to get it damaged.

I'll show you some 262 films that will melt your face.

[BnZs]

Visibility is worse, ballistics much more difficult to consistently connect with.  It should probably be Eny 10 though.

D9 has a higher k/d than the Pony consistently tour to tour. In fact, practically every fast plane and some mediocre and slow planes have a higher k/d. Also, I forgot to mention the Ta-152 relative the Pony. In my experience, there isn't too much to choose between the two.

Visibility is poor, turnability is average, ballistics are extremely difficult.  I'm also pretty sure the Typh, La7, D9 are all faster.  The P51D and K4 are too close to call on deck cruise speeds.

I'm pretty sure 5K-25K the K4 IS the fastest non-perker.

I agree, Typh should be Eny 5.

  Now I know you're pulling my chain.

I'll show you some 262 films that will melt your face.

I've seen your films, you've spent the time to learn to toss taters at ungodly speed differentials and deflections, the same gun most people have to set on someone's butt at D-0 to hit with. You're a living gunnery computer, hooray you. I'm also sure you and certainly 90% of the rest of the players could rack up big scores easier in a Tempest.

[JunkyII]

I think the 1 on 1 better "proves" your skill over a given opponent for the most part.  Especially because you can control many of the variables that occur in the MA, and rule those out.  Of course, everyone has "hot" and "off" days.

I've just never found those 1 on 1 duel-type fights to be very interesting or stimulating.  I'm bored in the DA by the time the game loads and I can see who's on the roster.  Win or lose, ho-hum, I'm not all that interested...

Multi-kill hops in the MA require a different set of skills, and for me are infinitely more stimulating and interesting, and make me try harder to beat my opponent and land some kills.  Having ten kills in my pocket makes me try harder to not die than having 1 or none does.  I consider my "life" more "valuable" when I have kills to land.  That doesn't make me timid, since I'm also greedy (landing 11-12 is better than 10!) and conceited (LOL, no way will that high spit get me!  I'm MtnMan!  Come 'ere you dirty varmint!  Lemme take your pelt!).

I've always seen duels as "warm-up" for the "real event" (MA), and as such I don't care much about victory/defeat in the DA.  But, again, even though I don't find duels exciting, I do think they "prove" skill over a select opponent in a way you can't often replicate in the MA.

I need the constantly varying engagements of the MA to keep me interested.  Is my next fight going to be "fair", advantaged, disadvantaged, against a slower or faster plane, better turner, worse turner 1 v 1, or 1 v many?  Who knows!  Just wondering makes me want to log on!

This is why I hate when people who say 1v1s are for the DA, personally I have had better 1v1s in the MA then I ever have in the DA because of the bold statement...just not knowing if someone may be hiding E from you at the merge and stuff like that make it all the better, this is also why Ill call off planes coming in on my 1v1 fights in the MA and always ask someone if they are ok with someone.(it isnt hard to do, just ask)

[Chalenge]

Gunnery is not that hard in AH. In fact the 'taters' are even easier to use at high deflection if you know how to 'game' it. That involves a clear plastic overlay on your screen where you can make grease pencil marks and make lots of sorties in the DA to adjust it. So simple a hand puppet could do it but its pretty low in my estimation to have to do that. Not many people go to the trouble I hope because if you just fly a plane long enough the shots become second nature.

Now I dont know why HTC decided that the P-51D should be ENY 5. It doesnt make sense to me. If its based on speed alone then the K4 should be ENY 3 or lower and we all know its not based on ability to run (seems to be what grizz is claiming). I think that HTC bases ENY solely on arena performance and since every noob in the world flies the P-51 and spits before anything else and because it is a workhorse that does field leveling and every other task a fighter-attack plane can do and deliver the goods and still make it home... we get stuck with ENY.

Now what grizz does to get kills I would never care. I see he flies german iron and I dont feel I need that 'advantage' if you will but maybe he is fulfilling a role fantasy of some sort.

I prefer attacking those large formations of heavy bombers with all the guns firing at me. Try that a few times and get those kills and land without taking any hits whatsoever... thats the best!  The bomber pilots you meet vary in skill level and the noobs or bomb-and-bailers stay low but the experienced guys go higher and they know how to avoid an experienced attackers approach. Patience is not only important its paramount and if you ever saddle up on the six position your a dweeb plain and simple. To me watching a bomber go from calm and collected to panic stricken and evasive when they realize they cannot even hit the attacker is great stuff!

And if you ever run into high escort know this... its probably someone that knows what he is doing because the noobs stay low where there is safety in numbers.

[Lusche]

I'm pretty sure 5K-25K the K4 IS the fastest non-perker.

It's actually the fastest prop plane 8-25K.
Very low (<5k) it's not at the top, but still only 8-10mph behind the top speed demons down there. The Typhoon is faster only on the deck, and that speed advantage is very small, so small it's getting close to be just theoretical in most situations.

[JunkyII]

Gunnery is not that hard in AH. In fact the 'taters' are even easier to use at high deflection if you know how to 'game' it. That involves a clear plastic overlay on your screen where you can make grease pencil marks and make lots of sorties in the DA to adjust it. So simple a hand puppet could do it but its pretty low in my estimation to have to do that. Not many people go to the trouble I hope because if you just fly a plane long enough the shots become second nature.

LOL I have never heard of this "clear plactic overlay", I may have to try this one

[Chalenge]

LOL I have never heard of this "clear plactic overlay", I may have to try this one

I just bet you will. 

[JunkyII]

I just bet you will. 

you keep saving your fuel

[Chalenge]

you keep saving your fuel

...and you keep practicing and one of these days you may actually learn how to fight!   

[JunkyII]

...and you keep practicing and one of these days you may actually learn how to fight!   

low Chalenge, maybe Ill have to show you how we fly under 10k and you can teach me 30k flying

[grizz441]

D9 has a higher k/d than the Pony consistently tour to tour. In fact, practically every fast plane and some mediocre and slow planes have a higher k/d. Also, I forgot to mention the Ta-152 relative the Pony. In my experience, there isn't too much to choose between the two.

The pony is an attack plane that many people use for suicide porking missions and bombing in general.  This will throw off the K/D considerably.  You know this but you still choose to use it as evidence to prove your point.  Also, the P51D is very user friendly (nice visibility, 50 cals, good feel to it) for newer players to hop into and be successful.  The 190D9 can be frustrating with the visibility, touchy with the roll rate, and frustrating german 20mm ballistics.  I think the P51D is a more lethal weapon than the 190D9 in the hands of a player in the 50th percentile (In general MA skill).  Same goes for the Ta152, give a very average player a 152, he most likely won't be able to hit anything with the unstable gunplatform and the 20mm and 30mm ballistics to go on top of that.  Again, the P51D will be more lethal.  That's why you don't see many players flying the Ta152, it's because they don't like it.  They don't like it because they can't kill in it like they can in their other b&z rides.  Most pilots will pick planes that give them the best chance of survival and lethality.  Follow the numbers, they will tell you which planes these are for the masses.

I'm pretty sure 5K-25K the K4 IS the fastest non-perker.

I was unaware.  That still doesn't help me catch 190D9s and Typhs, they'll just dive to the deck.  The 109K4 is obviously a great plane but it really isn't that lethal in the MA for the 50th percentile player.  It's too difficult for him to rack up more than 2-3 kills with only 65 taters.  The plane simply does not unbalance gameplay at all.

Now I know you're pulling my chain.

Why not?  Great visibility, hispanos, incredible deck speeds.  What more could a timid straight line vector pilot ask for?

I've seen your films, you've spent the time to learn to toss taters at ungodly speed differentials and deflections, the same gun most people have to set on someone's butt at D-0 to hit with. You're a living gunnery computer, hooray you.

Most of the Muppets have learned how to toss them french fried taters around at ungodly differentials.  We strive for PM cheat accusations.  

I'm also sure you and certainly 90% of the rest of the players could rack up big scores easier in a Tempest.

My kill potential is much higher in a jet than a tempest.  I can also make 5 times as many circus kill shots in a jet, there's really no comparison.  As for the rest of the population, I'm sure the tempest is their best bet.