Any boxers in the house?

[indy007]

Personally, I would prefer some form of martial arts training but...boxing can be fun.

Boxing is a martial art dude.

[gyrene81]

Boxing is a martial art dude.

Actually it's not...but we Western people have taken the notion to classify it as such to enhance it's appeal.

[indy007]

Actually it's not...but we Western people have taken the notion to classify it as such to enhance it's appeal.

That depends on how you define it. If you mean, it's not absolutely ridiculous hopping around on one foot and using teh DEADLY DIM MAK PRESURZE POITNS, then I guess not.  That's all I can assume by "Western".. that, and you've bought into the entire "eastern martial arts" BS who's only real contribution to fighting is Judo (which is awesome).

If you break it down and look at the words...

Martial
1.    inclined or disposed to war; warlike: The ancient Romans were a martial people.

Art
5.    any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.

Then boxing is completely a martial art, and having been to a variety of gyms, it's one of the most useful and effective ones out there as long as you back it up with a little grappling.

[Masherbrum]

That depends on how you define it. If you mean, it's not absolutely ridiculous hopping around on one foot and using teh DEADLY DIM MAK PRESURZE POITNS, then I guess not.  That's all I can assume by "Western".. that, and you've bought into the entire "eastern martial arts" BS who's only real contribution to fighting is Judo (which is awesome).

If you break it down and look at the words...

Then boxing is completely a martial art, and having been to a variety of gyms, it's one of the most useful and effective ones out there as long as you back it up with a little grappling.

Absolutely. 

[gyrene81]

Then boxing is completely a martial art, and having been to a variety of gyms, it's one of the most useful and effective ones out there as long as you back it up with a little grappling.

Add any other element and it is no longer actual "boxing" or "pugilism" which is the sport of fighting with fists...and pugilism in and of itself is not a martial art, it is simply a modernized form of ancient combat sports which were and are limited by rules. Martial arts on the other hand are derived from ancient forms of self defense that are not limited by rules and can include simple weapons as well as any part of the body.

I have no clue what your Judo reference is about since read verbatim without the idea of inference...it says Judo is the only martial art to come from the far Eastern cultures...and that is b.s.

[Saurdaukar]

Using my super-human powers of translation, I think what you are trying to say is that you consider "martial arts" to have a self-defense-focused purpose (hurt the other guy) while you consider boxing as more of a sport (out think/perform/win/etc)?

Not that I have any vested interest, either way.  Just curious.

I considered some other options; kick boxing for example, but who am I kidding?  I don't want to get cracked in the skull by some psycho's foot.  I have an old friend who tried his hand at professional kick boxing (whatever "Thai" version of it) in the 80's and he "retired" after his sixth fight with some permanent reminders of his experience.

My goal is to have fun - not inflict pain on anyone or myself.

Either way, boxing just appeals to me.  Granted, my opinion is useless without experience, but it seems to me, simply as an observer, that the level of "move and counter move" thinking required is larger than, say, a typical MMA bout.

I can see amateur and professional boxers "thinking" about where they want to be in 10 seconds.  By contrast, most of the MMA stuff Ive seen (not much, admittedly) seems to consist of "1.) Charge at the other guy 2.) Inflict as much damage as you can in as short a period as possible and 3.) hope your effort is better than his."

I made my decision based on what I was looking for; some good old fashioned competition.  I have no need or desire to turn myself into any sort of weapon for dark alleys.  I have a 1911 for that. 

Keep it going, though.  Off topic or not, I am reading all I can on the subject before starting and I appreciate the input from all.

[gyrene81]

Using my super-human powers of translation, I think what you are trying to say is that you consider "martial arts" to have a self-defense-focused purpose (hurt the other guy) while you consider boxing as more of a sport (out think/perform/win/etc)?

Just relaying information that I was given years ago...  ...modern boxing is a refined version of bare knuckle fighting that was considered "sport combat" much like the differences between fencing and sword fighting...fencing has equipment and rules to minimize the possibility of death. The types of combat that fall under the idea of martial arts have nothing to do with sport, they originated as forms of hand to hand combat that had no rules, except to defeat your enemy even if you had to kill him...either empty handed or with some sort of short range hand held weapon.

[morfiend]

 Mazz,

 read Obie's post again,it's right on the money!

 Now if your looking for a novel way of staying in shape and learning a thing or 2 boxing can be great for that.

 Most gyms wont let you spar for quite some time,wel "good" gyms,so its all about the conditioning.

 If and when you do decide to spar,read Obie's post again,use the big pillows...bigger the better at least 16oz.

 And whatever you do,be careful of your hands,I cant stress enough use the handwraps,back when I'd wrapup and grap a rope and put in my time.Once warmed up I'd do 3x3mins on the heavy.

 I was fortunate to have an instructor in house,Dad was a GG in 2 weights so as soon as I could walk I was learning...Jab,jab,jab...uppercut... hook! Ya Dad had a silly sense of humour!

   

[daddog]

I would suggest you try out some MMA or grappling, but it sounds like boxing is your thing. Boxing (did it for a while) can really bounce your brain around. At least it did mine. I was usually on the pounding end. Then again I was into the full contact stuff. If you practice some grappling you will get some terrific work outs and not punish your gray matter so much. I go to the gym very early most mornings and was into the martial arts for years, but have slowed down. Nothing gives you a work out like wrestling/grappling with someone. Also did some fencing for a while, foil, epee, and sabre.  Sabre and epee were my favorites. They can be very exciting and not punish your body so much.

Either way, boxing just appeals to me.  Granted, my opinion is useless without experience, but it seems to me, simply as an observer, that the level of "move and counter move" thinking required is larger than, say, a typical MMA bout.

As far as boxing requiring more 'thinking' than karate, MMA, baloney. You need to grab a couple UFC's with some a couple grapplers. Some amazing moves and counter moves to see with lots of strikes and joint manipulations.  All martial arts require levels of 'thinking', just depends on how far you want to dive in.

Best of luck with your new hobby. Hope you find years of enjoyment. 

[Widewing]

My dad was a boxer. I was dragged down to the YMCA at the age of 12 to learn. Up until I tore a rotator cuff last year (at the age of 55), boxing was my primary fitness activity.

Our heated two-car garage is a quasi-boxing gym. A 100 lb heavy bag, a 75 lb bag, doubled-ended bag and a speed bag. A typical workout was two hours of bag work (no rests or breaks), three days a week and 30 minutes of speed and double-ended bag work twice a week. I designed and built a punch counter with a rather insensitive impact switch. This was attached to the bag chain. My goal was 3,000 counts per workout, and it took a hard shot to trip the counter. If you can do 40 rounds of fast, heavy hitting bag work without any breaks, you are extremely fit. Far more fit than your typical boxer, who would require heart massage if he tried to match you. Of course, it takes a long time to work up to that level.

My advice...

Invest in a good quality heavy bag. Avoid the cheap bags in the sporting goods store. Next, invest in a top quality set of heavy bag gloves. I suggest no less than 14 oz. Bag gloves (best with velcro closures, unless you have someone to lace you up every workout) are designed to absorb the tremendous pounding and to protect your hands. DO NOT use the light gloves that are often used on a speed bag. Injure a hand and your training is done for at least 8 weeks. Thus, you need to learn how to properly wrap you hands. This is critical. It will take you a good 15 minutes to wrap both hands correctly.

Bag Gloves, I prefer these: http://www.ringside.com/Ringside-IMF-Tech8482-Bag-Gloves/productinfo/IMF+BG/


Hand wraps, avoid the heavy, thick velcro fastening type. I prefer Mexican type hand wraps, with a thumb loop (needed if you wrap your own hands). Apply tape liberally to secure the wraps.
I prefer these: http://www.ringside.com/Authentic-Mexican-Handwraps-10-Pack/productinfo/AMW+10/


Heavy bags... Ringside offers a great selection. You will want to balance cost and durability. So, I suggest this one to begin with (I own this bag):
http://www.ringside.com/Powerhide-Heavybag-Filled/productinfo/PCHB/


Buy a mounting kit if you're not sure how to hang a bag. http://www.ringside.com/Swivels/products/1247/

If you have nowhere to hang the bag, you can purchase a bag stand. http://www.ringside.com/Ringside-Prime-Heavybag-Stand/productinfo/HBSTAND/

As to actual training, I suggest you locate a boxing gym near to where you live. I would avoid fitness clubs, and their girly-girl "boxing for fitness" programs. I figure I could put the typical fitness club "instructor" on a gurney in less than a minute.

Learning to box really requires an experienced trainer. Training yourself may get you fit, but you will develop bad habits and really haven't learned anything more than punching an inanimate bag.

I'm not a fan of road work. I'm a believer in training like you fight. Unless you intend run 3 miles in the ring, consider more useful way to condition your legs. Stationary bike, squats and leg curls will be enough for your goals.

Begin your home workouts slowly at first. No more than 15 minutes. Gradually build up to where you want to be. However, like any other sport, don't push too hard at the outset. That's an easy way you injure yourself.

Stretch and warm up slowly with shadow boxing. Expect to be sore a day or two after your first workout. Within a few weeks, soreness will disappear.

Finally, see your doctor for a check-up before you begin...


My regards,

Widewing

[Obie303]

Wide Wing did a fantastic job describing a typical work out.

Two more thing I would like to add;

If you buy a heavy bag, don't buy a canvas bag.  I'll tear up your bag gloves.  But if you do, wrap the target area with duct tape.

Get a good CD with music to work out to.  I liked Jock Jams Vol. 1.  It makes the time you shadow box (Irish Jig), more in-step with a beat.   

When you have your first lesson, keep us posted.  Like to hear what you think of the sport.

Keep your hands up,
Obie

[morfiend]

Wide Wing did a fantastic job describing a typical work out.

Two more thing I would like to add;

If you buy a heavy bag, don't buy a canvas bag.  I'll tear up your bag gloves.  But if you do, wrap the target area with duct tape.

Get a good CD with music to work out to.  I liked Jock Jams Vol. 1.  It makes the time you shadow box (Irish Jig), more in-step with a beat.   

When you have your first lesson, keep us posted.  Like to hear what you think of the sport.

Keep your hands up,
Obie

 More good advice!

 Oh and dont lead with your head,sure you can beat their hands up,but the headaches arent worth it.

[indy007]

Either way, boxing just appeals to me.  Granted, my opinion is useless without experience, but it seems to me, simply as an observer, that the level of "move and counter move" thinking required is larger than, say, a typical MMA bout.

You've never grappled. MMA is a high speed chess match. In boxing you "move & counter" punches. Do that while also countering kicks, takedowns, and submissions. Sport boxing is also inherently much more dangerous than MMA, and the numbers back that claim up. Taped fists and 12oz gloves are literally more dangerous than taped fists and 4oz gloves because of the sheer amount of trauma inflicted over time.

As for people trying to nitpick sport vs art. That's stupid. Boxing, Karate, San Shou, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Judo, and many others are both. They have sports competitions, but work just as equally well in real fight. The reason is simple, there's no difference in techniques. A jab-cross-hook combo in a boxing match is no different than a jab-cross-hook in a street fight. A thai plum (clinch) in a ring is the same as a thai plum in a sports bar. An armbar is no different. An uchi-mata is no different. The only difference is a rule-set prevents you from mixing in other techniques, or in some countries getting exceptionally violent like head stomping (which, incidentally, we have practiced in mma & grappling for self-defense situations).

[wakes]

<S>  Semper Fi, Semper Fi, Semper Fi, Semper Fi

[Saurdaukar]

Rah.

Ok, now you get to critique my gear selection.  I tried to abide by the suggestions of this thread whilst considering the limitations of my home. 

For example; this will all be in the basement and, as it is finished, the old lady would likely not take kindly to me cutting holes the in drywall ceiling.  I also do not feel the ceiling to be high enough to realistically accommodate a bag stand so I went with a free-standing bag weighted weighted with a 200lbs sand base.

-Title Freestanding Reflex Heavy Bag (synthetic leather, bag: 16" x 40", unit: adjustable from 72" to 81")
-Title 16oz "Platinum" Bag Gloves (appear to provide the best protection for the buck)
-Two sets of hand wraps; both with thumb holes.

Already have a decent jump rope.

My plan is to take the next two or three weeks to improve my conditioning to an acceptable level (so I'm not completely wasting a trainer's time) and then start at the gym after the New Year; being careful to avoid developing bad habits along the way (been watching a lot of You Tube "How To" videos.)

Sound like a plan?