Testing the n1k

[SOB]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
Typical.

To do some tests? ok. I will do a low speed loop in a tiffie later, film it and post it.

Better yet I will take off on a straight line, manually. That will be enough test about the lack of torque, if you dont believe me, go and read some WWII stories about typhoons, ok?.

Or do what flakbait said...try to trim your F4U manually on take off and see how you crash, ok?

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-07-2000).]

I've got a test for ya...take off without using your rudder or trim at all.  


SOB

[RAM]

SOB, please, I never said that torque is NOT there. I say only that it has been seriously tuned down in 1.04.

[hitech]

RAM said.

I see the torque tuning down as a redundant measure for playability.

Totaly incorect RAM.

HiTech

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
I see the torque tuning down as a redundant measure for playability,if its done for that purpose

You missed the last part, Hitech. I dont know why was done, the torque SURE feels weaker in 1.04 than in 1.03. That was an answer to a previous post, and the part you quoted is out of context.

I dont know why was it tuned down. Hell, I dont know if it WAS tuned down on purpose. All I know is that torque now feels weaker than in the previous version.

[edit] and I am very happy to know its not done for gameplay  [/edit]


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-07-2000).]

[Jigster]

but apparently something related to prop effects has been reduced, correct?

I know torque is definately still strong because of the corelation between power settings and trim settings, but the yawing effect is practically non-existant. And on some planes it starts in the wrong direction, but that might be a braking bug/issue.

[SOB]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
SOB, please, I never said that torque is NOT there. I say only that it has been seriously tuned down in 1.04.

I'm just flipping ya toejam RAM.  My point was, since it is there, how do you know it's wrong as compared to 1.03?  Just wondering (honestly), 'cause I don't agree with your reasoning that because rookies crashed tiffies into hangars and the hog was the 'ensign eliminator' that our torque, vortex, thingamajobby, whosefudge, and the other are off because we don't do the same thing.  Sorry for the technical terms, but it's too much effort for me to look at what HT said was modelled  


SOB

-edit- Jig, I notice that the Niki pulls a little to the right before coming back to the left when just starting up...wasn't sure what that was all about, but figured it had more to do with my ignorance of the subject than anything else.


[This message has been edited by SOB (edited 12-07-2000).]

[Jigster]

It's some kinda bug SOB, alot do it, including the P-38 (which should have none   )

I might have something to do with wind, but it's still a bug   Cause problems on landings too (the "insta-swap-ends" thingy)

[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 12-07-2000).]

[fd ski]

Just to pitch in on the idioting subject of torque on the take off in Tiffy and how "realistic" it was in 1.03.

I've flown a toejamload of missions in Tiffy, online and offline in 1.03 and take off in all of them was hairy.
Yeah, i knew about flaps, wep, full rudder and slowly advencing the throttle - still, there was usually 1 in 3 chance that i'll auger.

Now, for first 10 take offs - that's acceptable.
But if on 100th take off i'm still having those problems - it sounds to me like it was way out of whack.

If that was indeed how tiffy flew in RL - it would have never been mass produced, much less used operationaly.

Novice pilots managed to bang up any plane ever made - even something like gentle as hurricane. Just because there were Tiffies banged up, doesn't mean that it should be close to impossible to take off in it.



------------------
Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by fd ski:

I've flown a toejamload of missions in Tiffy, online and offline in 1.03 and take off in all of them was hairy. Yeah, i knew about flaps, wep, full rudder and slowly advencing the throttle - still, there was usually 1 in 3 chance that i'll auger.

Then,respectfully, I will have to teach you how to take off.

Because,few as they were, I flew some sorties in typhoon in 1.03, and only once augered, but not on take off, but landing. (landing I pressed the wrong rudder, happened to me a lot with yak too, I'm not used to the opposite torque)

Never augered in takeoff, even in the first release with the tiffie, the 1.02, the first plane I took was a tiffie and went airborne OK.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-08-2000).]

[Jekyll]

 

I suspect combat trim is a large part of the reason that we can do near-0 airspeed maneuvers easier than we could before.

But wouldn't this mean that Combat Trim is just another name for the infamous Warbirds EZ-Mode?

Hmmm.. I seem to remember a number of posts by the old IMOL crew, saying words to the effect of "EZ Mode does not confer an advantage when flying.  If anything, a pilot flying EZ Mode is at a disadvantage flying against Real Mode pilots".

Lo and behold, a change of crew and EZ mode is disabled in the WB Main Arena.  Suddenly, a number of previously top-scoring pilots were revealed as 'EZ moders', and saw their scores plummet dramatically.

But of course, EZ mode never conferred an advantage, did it?  

Hmmm I wonder who was responsible for EZ mode introduction in Warbirds?

[Lephturn]

This ain't EZ mode.  Combat trim just gets you "close", not right on.  The only time I an see it helping is at very low speeds where you might have to make LARGE trim adjustments to get full control authority and keep the attitude you want.  IMHO, all that does is even the score partially between guys like me with my Sidewinder, and guys with full HOTAS setups that have fancy trim wheels.  WB EZ mode kept you from stalling the plane by limiting the inputs when neccessary, if I remembery correctly.  It is the complete opposite of combat trim, which helps you get full authority.

Also, do you really think that the changes to WB after Pyro and HTC left were for "accuracy"?  They hacked it up according to whoever whined the loudest from what I saw.  I'll take HT and Pyro's arena any day.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[fd ski]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
Then,respectfully, I will have to teach you how to take off.

And you wonder why everyone feels you're an agnorant bellybutton ?

Oh please show us the way all knowing one !!!



------------------
Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[RAM]

Well, Fd-ski, you are the one who says that out of 3 takeoffs augered in one with 1.03 torque...   Of course I dont believe it,was an irony, you DIDNT crash once each 3 takeoffs.

I take anyone who augers one of 3 times as someone who doesnt know to take off. And dont tell me that it was because the tiffie's torque, because I took off in it with no big trouble.

So ,either your post about your augers with 1.03 tiffie is a blatant lie, or you need training on how to take off.

I didnt say anything ,you said it all.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-08-2000).]

[J_A_B]

To me, torque feels reduced as well, especially in the TYPHOON ans F4U.   I find it much easier to take off in these planes now.

Of course, it was so redicuously hard to take off in a TYPH under the old model, I have to wonder which one really is more accurate.   I have never flown a WW2 warbird, and probably never will.  I will accept whatever HTC feels is best in this manner.   Either way, torque doesn't add anything to the game--it's just some "added coloring"

If I use no trim or rudder in a TYPH now when taking off, I end up about 50 degrees off course to the left--that sounds about in line with pilots accounts.  However, i CANNOT flip the F4U on the runway with the throttle, as supposedly happened in RL.

Of course, to my knowledge none of HTC has ever flown a real F4U, so none of them can be certain how to model it correctly.   Modeling a force you've never felt is a lot like a blind man trying to imagine colors--it's just a best guess.

ALSO--combat trim is a needed feature of the game.  Not everyone has (or can afford) a nice HOTAS, or even a SIDEWINDER.   Try playing this game using only a two-button joystick without using combat trim.   No hat, no pedals, no throttle.   Believe me, it is hard.  Unfair, really.  Why should some players get an automatic advantage just because they have more disposable income?

It is possible to be successful using only a two-button stick, but with such a setup  your workload is VASTLY increased.  I think a lot of people with nice controller setups tend to forget this.

The addition of combat trim went a long way towards making the game more playable for those of us using minimal controllers.  


J_A_B

[Jigster]

It is kinda silly arguing about stick quality when you play 30$ a month for a sim with a 10$ joystick. (and I do use a CH Jetstick, a cheap 2 button job with the best handle ever made in conjunction with a HOTAS occasionally)

This thread is getting severely hijacked