New plane request: B24H/J

[Karnak]

RAM,

I agree.  I may be an American, but I got tired of the nationalistic BS that comes with a lot of this stuff.  That's why I tend to fly non-American equipment.

When I first got interested in WWII it was the Pacific War that did it for me.  I was really into Wildcats, Hellcats, Corsairs and P-38s and I read many books filled with the exploits of Americans in the Pacific War.  However, I have an intrinsic sense of fairness an so I decided to find out what the war was like from the Japanese soldier's perspective.  I could only find one book, Oba: The Last Samurai, auth. unknown, (I have since found Samurai! by the late Saburo Sakai) and as I reread much of what I had already taken in from the American perspective I became disgusted at how racist most of it was.

I found that it was very difficult to find good sources that portrayed the events accurately.  It was nearly all buried in nationalistic crap.  We HAD to shoot down 2 Zeros for every Wildcat we lost.

The accounts didn't add up.

So, I switched to the European Theatre in the hope that the Germans would be treated in a fairer manner because they were white.

I was, at once, both not disappointed and disappointed.

I was not disappointed because the Germans got a much fairer shake from the retellings.  I was disappointed because the difference in how the Germans and Japanese were portrayed was so obvious.

I have focused on the European Theatre ever since, although I have been dabbling in Japanese equipment info lately.

I would like to see more non-US equipment in AH.

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 12-08-2000).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Jigster:

Go over the entrance into combat dates of those US planes again, and stop trying to make it seem like they all magically appeared in late '44    

who talked about LATE 44?. me for sure ,not. I said LATEWAR (I.E. 1944-45)

Current planeset:
-----------------------------------
USA

P51D->medium-to-late 1944
P38L->late 1944
P47D25->medium-to-late 1944
P47D30->late 1944
F4U1-D->early-to-mid 1944
F4U1-C->1945
F6F-5->medium 1944
TBM-3->early-to-medium 1944
B17G-> early 1944
B26B->early 1944

ALL latewar stuff.

C47--------->dweeb ride  
-----------------------
Germany:

Me109F4--->early 1942
Me109G2--->late 1942-early 1943
Me109G6 (the one in AH)->medium 1943
Me109G10--->Late 1944

Fw190A5--->medium-1943
Fw190A8--->early-1944

Ju88A4--->1940 (the oldest plane in this planeset (!))
-------------------------

Britain (UK)

Spitfire V------>1941
Spitfire IX----->1942-44 (Still to be decided)
TyphoonIb------>1942-43 (the ironed-out tiffie, the first ones had BIG teething troubles. anyway and in the worse of the cases ,1941)

Lancaster III with 50 cals----->1944

---------------------------
Japan:

A6M5b--------->early 1944 (obsolete bigtime)
N1K2---------->mid-to-late 1944
---------------------------
Italy:
C202--------->1940-41 (dont know exactly)
C205--------->1943.
---------------------------
USSR:
La5FN-------->early 1944 (or late 1943? dont know exactly)
Yak9U-------->mid-to-late 1944
---------------------------
France:
none
----------------------------


You want more examination on the planeset or you had enough already?. It is more than clear that the planeset is ruled by a latewar set of US planes.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-08-2000).]

[-ammo-]

 

Originally posted by RAM:
 who talked about LATE 44?. me for sure ,not. I said LATEWAR (I.E. 1944-45)

Current planeset:

and what is your point? Big deal! heres how it works RAM... you double click on the AH icon on your desktop, enter the arena of your choice, go fly the virtual AC (after all you are paying for it), then the biggest thing-- Have fun! quit yeer whining.. expend your energy on more worthwhile things. You should really step back and listen to yourself.

(us Americans, we get together with HTC every Monday at 1500 hrs eastern to discuss our next manuever in thwarting the dreaded LW enthusiest) You see we dont have jobs or families.. We exist only to play AH and make you mad


 

[Torgo]

Karnak,

Umm...err..well, do you have any objective evidence that the Wildcat didn't have a good kill ratio vs. the Zero?

Of course, AH doesn't have a Wildcat yet, but back a couple years ago when I still played Warbirds, in the "big" Pacific scenarios, the Wildcat used to crush the living snot out of the zeros..to a much greater degree than in the main arena.

1-2 zeros vs. 1-2 wildcats is fairly even....12 wildcats vs. 12 zeros usually ends up with the wildcats winning.

Of course, a big problem in the scenarios is you had an awful lot of people flying zeros that didn't fly them in main; while the Wildcat, I think, was far less of a difference.

Still, virtually everything I read from "our" side credits the Japanese with beginning the war with some of the best pilots in the world, and a credible aircraft. However, I've long suspected the Zero was actually a bit OVERRATED; whatever they accomplished early in the war was entirely from having the best trained pilots in the world; of course, when they died, they were replaced with some of the worst-trained pilots in the world.

And even early in the war once it wasn't Zeros vs. Brewsters and such the Wildcat still did well.

[Jigster]

Well after the capture of Koga's (I believe that was his name? The poor fellow who died in the crash, and they took the Zero back to evaluate it) plane, they discovered the Zero had better range, higher rate of climb, higher roll and turn rate, equal speed for combat purposes, good dive acceleration, better gun package, vs the F4F.

Granted that alot of pilots had been gaining expierience in China years before they did indeed prolly have the best pilots in the war, but very little of the Zeke's abilities were overated.

But when your flying a zippo lighter luck has this way of running out  

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by -ammo-:

and what is your point?

My point is that AH is full of options for the american iron lover, but not so for the rest of the people who has to fly a limited planeset (I Include Germany in the pack, out of 6 fighters it has only 3 competitive rides in Main Arena).

Yet,there are people asking for YET more american latewar stuff, and they YET discuss and try to ignore the fact that they have the best planeset (by far) in the arena. And if people doesnt ignore it and dare to say it, we have again the "whiner" accusation.

typical. How typical.

I dont need your advice on taking fun-I'm having it and in loads last days. But when I see someone asking for YET more american latewar iron, then I DO answer.

And no, I dont believe you get together with HTC every Monday at 1500 hrs, I dont believe in an anti-LW conspiration. It is a PRO-american conspiration   .

AH?...instead of Aces High why not Americans High?...33% of the 1.05 planeset WILL BE AMERICAN.


10 out of 17 1944-1945 planes in 1.05 Aces High WILL BE AMERICAN. Thats 60% aprox.


So, I say that its time to step back from Americans High and turn this into a **REAL** Aces High instead of keeping the american plane injection on the game. I provide numbers and data that backs up my words.

And I am called whiner. Both things start to get old, IMO. (the continuous US plane injection ,and that if someone tries to swim against the current he is called whiner)

[edit]Jigster, the Zero showed it was more reliable than most american planes ,too. In the tests some planes had mechanical problems while the Zero ran smooth all the time[/edit]

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-09-2000).]

[juzz]

 

Originally posted by juzz:
ehhehehehehe...

OK, someone give me a big friggin' prize now!  


And on a seperate note...

 

Slightly smaller Pe-2 - again fast and used widely as a dive bomber (361mph, 2x50 cals + 3x30 cals, 2,200lbs bombload). In sevice from 1940... There was even a heavy fighter version - Pe-3.

The vast majority of production model(s) of the Pe-2 never reached 360mph. Most fell in the 305mph to 335mph range. The first prod. model with was actually the fastest!  

Be nice to have a Pe-2 though, probably the most important VVS bomber along with the Il-2 for attack...

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 12-09-2000).]

[Jigster]

Ram, was thinkin about this, and just wondered if you've considered that if we get all the US planes modeled and out of the way (the easiest to find multiple/reliable data on) then HTC can focus on, what is generally more time consuming, working with non-US planes?

I know they are pretty much dominant as it is right now but generally you can crank out 2 or 3 US planes where you might get one non-US plane in the same time period.

Thats taking into consideration the great links HTC goes towards ensuring accuracy within the parameters of the sim. (in comparison to the other sims)

Of course thats just speculation on my part but it would seems to make sense, filling out the plane set with the easiest to get info. It just seems like it gets overlooked alot in all the favoritism crap.

Your thoughts?

[Nashwan]

RAM the Spit IX in AH is a standard 1942 version, but with the 1944 E armament option, and a boost gauge that reads 18lb instead of 15lb. The extra boost doesn't seem to make any difference however.
Quick chart comparing time to altitude of various Spit IXs
Alt...AH IX : 1942IX : HF IX : LF IX : 1944IX
4K.....1.07....1.10.......... ................0.50
6K. ...1.38...............1.24... ............1.15
10K....2.42...............2.2 5....2.15.....2.06
18K....4.58...............4.1 8................
20K....5.40....6.00.......... ...............4.30
30K....9.52...11.40.....8.05. ...8.40....8.17

The LF entered production in 1943 and was by far the most produced Spit IX.
The Spit IX and XVI remained in production untill the end of the war, but by 44 they were principaly ground attack aircraft. In the final year of the war the Spit XIV and Tempest were the RAF's primary fighters. Some Spit IXs and VIIIs were also modified for 150 octane fuel, to improve their performance. This shows that the RAF was not satisfied with the basic Spit IX by 44. The RAF was not still using basic 1942 Spit IXs in the dedicated front line fighter role in Europe by this time, so to call it a 44 plane is misleading.

[RAM]

Jigster, my point is not that we can get planes faster or slower. My point is that there was a claim on a B24 when we have another AMERICAN bomber that fullfits just the same role. And that it would be a redundant aircraft given that we need ASAP:

-Planes with different roles than fighters or level bombers

-Planes of different nationality.

-Late war planes from other nations.

About your claim about being easier to find data on US planes, sorry ,but no. THere are wide and abundant documents on LW , RAF, Japanese and USSR aircraft. And there are people in this boards that will happily give all the documentation they have to get those planes modelled.

So, no, I dont think that there is such a big 3/1 relation between US and non US planes. Maybe 3/2 yes, but not 3/1.

I think that, as most pleolpe like american planes, they are given what they want. It is a good way of action IMHO, from HTC, and I would have done the same if I was in their skin.

But, now that we are full of US latewar planes, its time to bring other nation's planes. And that is my point.

Nashwan, roger. Somehow I thought it was a 1944 spit, but I see it isnt.  

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-10-2000).]

[Sancho]

Good point Ram.  We need more non US planes... for me to kill!!  

And Torgo, some of us already know how useful the P-47 is at 25k feet in large wolfpacks.  

[Jigster]

sigh, nevermind. Useless attempt on my part.

[brady]

 
  Karnak: I feel your pain,it is very hard to find books on the Japanese perspective,and on Japanese equipment. I started my love of military history from the German perspective and then started spending more time delving into the pacific theater.I have several book now on the Japanese perspective and have even gone so far as to spend some time at the local )Oregon Military Museum pouring through old dusty inelegance reports and tech manuals to get info on Japanese weapons,and as soon as I get my scanner working u will some posts on that subject.
   Look for a manual entitled TM 1985-5 volume 1 and 2.

     As far as adding another US plane concerned well I think I covered that in my post "do we have enough US and German planes?"

     To summerize I love this game but please god no more US stuff for a while!

      Brady

 

[This message has been edited by brady (edited 12-10-2000).]

[-tronski-]

If the IL-2 was wearing stars n bars...betcha a million dollars hard currency it would've made it's appearance by now...
but I guess 30,000+ aircraft don't count for much do they...

-tronski-
   


[This message has been edited by -tronski- (edited 12-10-2000).]

[Gerd]

Gentlemen, I am impressed to discover that I am amongst some true fighter aircraft afficianadoes.

We all have our favorite aircraft, and those tend to be the ones we are most exposed to. I must admit that until I joined this community I new little of the Italian aircraft, and had little appreciation for Japanese aircraft. Being American I've been fed a constant diet of Stars, bars and balkan crosses. Aircraft with roundels and other insignia tend to be given short shrift.

I agree that a more representative plane set be devised to be representative of the belligerents of WWII. The creation of the Naval version should help in this regard, by moving the Japanese and US Navy aircraft to the PTO. The voids in both arenas could then be filled by the lesser known aircraft of the appropriate theaters.

Just my opinion.